Pistol Problems...

[P-990]

I've been having a problem with my favorite wondernines lately (my G-17 and P-990). Seems that I can't hit shi-ite with them, no matter the range. This is not from a lack of practice mind you all. I have reloaded 3,000+ rds of 9mm since Christmas (and shot most, but not all, of it). I concentrate on stance, breathing, trigger control, sight-alignment, everything, but the results are usually the same.
Example: Yesterday I perforated a silouhette from 8-9yds with the 990. Of 60 rounds launched at it, about 10-15 ended up out of scoring. What hurt was when I thought I had a one hole from the first mag, only to find three rounds hiding up in the neck area of the target.

BUT, before you think I can't shoot, I also picked up my Dad's 1911 and proceeded to shoot circles around him and my brother, without any extra thought (very difficult for me to think BTW). What my problem is is that I cannot decide if I should keep the $1k invested in 9's or trade them in for a 1911-type auto. It seems to me that I can ALWAYS pick up a 1911 and hammer EVERYTHING out to 25 yards and beyond. I would like to have a little vote of support or admonishment whether or not the 9's are worth keeping (obviously I would save my pennies for another gun).

PS: I should also note that I am leaving for the Navy August 23rd, and this pistol would then be entrusted to the use and abuse of my brother and father for 6 years.

 

[Rickmeister]

Are you packing reloads? Have you tried factory ammo? Different makes? Standard pressure and +P?

My P99 shoots nice and straight with Speer/CCI, Federal, and S&B cartridges, particularly if the birds fly at 1200+ fps. But I can't hit a **** at 25 yards using other stuff. Go figure.

(CorBons are good, but they kick like a mule on steroids.)

 

[P-990]

Neither of these weapons has ever been packing with me. What hurts is that I KNOW my reloads will chew 1.5" 25yd groups through the Walther. The Glock only does slightly worse (it prefers 115gr loads but I use 124s for the Walther. Hey the P-990 came first.).

 

[pogo2]

You say you shoot the 1911 in .45 a lot better than the two 9mm's with polymer frames. I do also, and I think the reason is that heavy guns with short, light trigger pulls are easier to shoot accurately.

I presume the 1911 is full-size in steel, so that it weighs about 40 ounces loaded and has a 4-lb. trigger with short stroke and crisp letoff. I also would guess the two polymer 9mm's weigh about 25 ounces each and have longer, heavier trigger pulls. The Glock trigger is 5.5 lbs. standard, and I don't know what the P99 is.

So you have an extra pound of weight sitting there with the 1911, and it has more inertia to resist deflection from your normal movements while lining up the sights. And you can trigger the shot with less movement of the trigger, which will also serve to resist deflection of the gun prior to the shot. Assuming that you are a good shooter and don't flinch more with a .45 than a 9mm, I would expect you to shoot the 1911 more accurately.

Of course there may be other factors - for example it may be that .45 ACP is intrinsically more accurate than 9mm, or the 1911 may be intrinsically more accurate than a Glock 17, etc. This could probably be established by clamping the guns in question in a Ransom Rest to keep them steady, taking the human shooter out of the equation. But I'll bet the difference in accuracy you describe comes more from the human than the gun, in this case.

 

[Onslaught]

The Glock trigger is 5.5 lbs. standard, and I don't know what the P99 is.

The Walther P-990 is DAO, so it's even worse than the Glock. (7.7 pounds according to the website.)

I'd have to agree that the trigger is the difference in accuracy for you. I did the same thing with a Browning HP once... Having never shot one in my life, I ran circles around the owner.

Since you practice a lot, and work on stance, breathing, etc... when you take the trigger out of the equation, you get better... and since you practice more/harder than they do, you shoot their gun better.

 

[P-990]

Thanks for all the input so far. I have to agree that the trigger is probably the primary issue for me.

Flinching is NOT something I know how to do. I love shooting .44 Magnums and am capable of placing those big slugs exactly where the pistol is pointed. What is strange is that I can empty the .45 1911 with more speed and precision than the supposedly easier to shoot 9mms. Well, sometimes I catch myself twitching while firing one of my 9's. Within 7 yards I there is little difference. Step the targets out and the differences are drastic.

And the j3rk on the trigger IS the issue, to a point. My Dad and brother practice alot too (not as much as I do, but plenty) and they too find the Walther to be hard to manage at distance. The Glock isn't as bad due to the trigger reset being much shorter.

Yes, I shoot the Glock better than the Walther. Even though the Walther was my first personal handgun, I have thought of letting it go many a time, complete with its 16rd magazine. Just can't help thinking that I would be happier with a 1911 or BHP. When I come back from the Navy I will probably sell my brother the Walther because he seems to like it.

Agh, this is tough. Mostly frustrating due to the deterioration of results despite the constant practice. Break time!

 

[Watch-Six]

Pistols are like shoes. Use what "fits" you. You could just have crappy ammo that your gun doesn't like, but more likely you just have a better "fit" with a 1911. Why fight it? Watch-Six

 

[P-990]

Watch-Six,
You're right, I SHOULD stop fighting it! 1911s, DA revolvers, and SA revolvers, all the handguns anybody really needs?

 

[firecapt7]

IMHO, the target you have just shot will tell you every thing you need to know on what you are doing wrong, first off there is nothing wrong with any weapon you are shooting, the sights can be adjusted. all handguns can and will shoot accurately.
look at your target top(12 o'clock) Right side (3o"clock) and so on around the clock.
if the rds are hitting at 12 o'clock it is too much front sight
from 3 to 5 o'clock it is trigger pull (too much finger or a jerk)
from 6 to 9 o'clock its the front sight blade is low in your sight picture or too little finger on the trigger (push) or a flinch
three rules of shooting that seem to work with everyone from begginer to expert.
1. grip, firm but not hard enough to make you shake
2. front sight (front sight should be clear, the target fuzzy)
3. surprise break (trigger pull should be steady)

 

[Onslaught]

What about selling the P990 for an (otherwise) identical P99?

I really like the trigger pull on those, and it's pretty short... That way, you won't miss your 990, and you can keep the 16 round mag

 

[P-990]

Onslaught,
I have already thought about that. Seems like a very attractive option to tell you the truth.

firecapt7,
I wish it were that simple.
Standard target pattern:
First round- centered, black
2-10-left, right, center, high, low, X, 10, etc.
It (the problem) probably does not stem from my stance, grip, or sight picture. It is trigger control (meaning the difficulty of controlling the 990 trigger). The Glock isn't as bad. High and a little left of center, every time.

 

[jack_the_sailor]

I think the Walther P990 has a DAO trigger pull of about 12#. The Glock has a trigger pull of 5.5#. The Walter P99 Quick Action has a 7# trigger pull. So your shooting 2 pistols. 1 has a 12# trigger pull. The other has a 5.5# trigger pull. Switching between the 2 is the problem. I'd shoot the Glock & trade the Walther P990 for a Walther P99 Quick Action.

 

[P-990]

Well, after spending some time with the 1911 I am beginning to wonder if remembering things like decockers and safeties is really all that difficult after a suitable amount of practice is put in on the piece.