Pistol Dueling was Once an Olympic Event 110 Years Ago

Old Bill Dibble

New member
Ok, just no.

Yes "pistol dueling" was an Olympic event. That is as far as it goes.

Competitors shot at targets not each other.

http://www.topendsports.com/events/discontinued/shooting-duelling-pistol.htm

In the 25m Duelling Pistol au commandement the shooters held the pistol at their side, loaded and cocked. As the range officer asked if they were ready. When they said, "Yes," the range officer then counted out, "Fire, one, two, three.", giving the commands at a cadence of 100 per minute. The shooter was required to get the shot off before the count of three.

The gun caliber allowed was between 7.5 and 12mm, with a barrel maximum length of 30cm. They were one shot pistols loaded by the muzzle or by the breechlock. The target was a silhouette of a human figure, with a life-like height of 1.57m and a maximum girth of 22.5cm. The 5-ring target was in the middle of the thorax with a height of 10cm and a width of 7.5cm. The competition was over 30 shots. A bulls-eye was worth 5 points, so a maximum score of 150 points was possible.

The other dueling event in 1906 was 20m Duelling Pistol au visé. In this event the shooters had ample time to make their shots. The gun regulations were the same as in au commandement, though the target was 19cm in diameter, with 10 rings of 1 cm diameter. The maximum possible score was 300 points. The target area for ths event was larger than for au commandement, and there was no mention of a human silhouette as a target.

The 25m Duelling Pistol au commandement was the forerunner of the Olympic Games rapid-fire pistol event. In 1912, there was a shooting event was held called men's 30 metre dueling pistol (later standardized by the IOC to the men's 25 metre rapid fire pistol) though in this case the competitors are are believed to have fired at a target not a coat wearing dummy.
 

dogtown tom

New member
rickyrick http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2016/...110-years-ago/

Short article, not too much information. Doesn't really say how it ended.

I had no idea that this was a sport, but now that I know, I'm interested more about it. I guess you have to trust your opponent.
Any more insight would be appreciated.
Article is wrong. "Pistol dueling" was never an Olympic sport.

If you Google "pistol dueling" you'll get several search results that link back to stuff like "12 Weird Olympic events".....one of those is a link to a Popular Mechanics article that describes an EXHIBITION at the 1908 London Games.

A quick look at the 1908 Shooting competition at those games shows only two pistol events.......and no mention of "dueling".
 

dogtown tom

New member
Old Bill Dibble Here is a list of the results from the 1912 Games in Stockholm.

http://www.sports-reference.com/olym...mmer/1912/SHO/

You will see Al Lane won Gold for the US:
Try using an official Olympic Games website instead of some catch all site like that.

www.olympic.org is the official IOC (International Olympic Committee) website.
https://www.olympic.org/stockholm-1912/shooting
Again, dueling pistols or pistol dueling are not and never have been Olympic events.

Al Lane won 25m Rapid Fire Pistol and 50m Pistol (slow fire)
 

Old Bill Dibble

New member
Gosh I keep hating to beat this poor horse but....

Here is the:
FIFTH OLYMPIAD
THE OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE OLYMPIC GAMES
OF STOCKHOLM 1912
ISSUED BY
THE SWEDISH OLYMPIC COMMITTEE

EDITED BY
ERIK
BERGVALL

TRANSLATED BY
EDWARD ADAMS-RAY



http://library.la84.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1912/1912.pdf

Note on page 158

Team-
and Individual Competition in Duel Shooting.
Distance 30 metres.
1. No allowance will be made for mis-fires or for shots with, in other respects, defective ammunition.
2. A shot not fired shall be counted as a miss.
3. Only one shot may be fired each time the word “Eld” (fire!) is given.
4. It is forbidden to take aim with the weapon before the word “Eld” (fire!) is given


Page 647

Duel-shooting.
The shooting took place at a 10-zoned whole figure which was
visible to the competitor for the space of 3 seconds, with intervals
of 10 seconds, after which the target again appeared; during the
interval the competitor had, if necessary, to reload his weapon.
After each series of 5 shots, the hits were counted and the holes
afterwards covered over.
A majority of the competitors, hit the target
nearly every time,
and with relatively good results.
The Swedish marksmen used the American Smith and Wesson target-
practice pistol exclusively, while the Norwegians and the German
representatives used various calibres of the German Parabellum automatic
pistol.
Patton, the only representative
from the western continent, shot
with a Colt.

Page 701

INDIVIDUAL COMPETITION WITH REVOLVER
AND PISTOL. DISTANCE 30 METRES (DUEL SHOOTING).

9 a. m. Saturday, 29 June.

Any revolver or pistol, with open fore- and back-sights.
Number of shots: 30 shots in 6 series, with 5 shots in each series.
Two sighters.
Target: Whole-figure (in zones), 1.7 metres high.
Highest possible number of points, 300.
76 competitors,
representing 10 nations,
had been entered for this
competition and,
of this number, 42 men from
10 nations actually
competed, the result of their shooting being as follows:

Page 1062 has a nice copy of the man silhouette that was used as a target.

Don't know what to tell ya, it's a source document.



I guess the Swedes could have predicted that internet discussions would come up a 100 years later and planted false evidence but I deem it unlikely.
 

dogtown tom

New member
That doesn't make them historically accurate.
True.

1. It's a translation....only as good as the translator.
2. George Patton did not take part in the Shooting competition, he participated in the Modern Pentathlon (which has pistol shooting, fencing, running swimming, riding, etc)
3.There never has been dueling (shooting at another person with any sort of projectile) in the Olympics. Most likely the use of the term "duel shooting" in that translation doesn't have anything to do with "dueling pistols" or "dueling" as we know it, but due to the translator not having a clue about shooting sports or competitions.
4. If the format of the competition is like it was in Rio........they meant "dual", not "duel". Shooting competitors shoot in pairs.....but not at each other.;)
 

Old Bill Dibble

New member
That is what I have been saying all along. People did not shoot at each other with wax bullets (or anything else) as the original article claims.

If you read the rules it has nothing to do with pairs or doubles.

George did shoot in the Pentathlon. That is what the report (I am guessing you didn't read it) was referencing.


Until somebody pops up with something in the original Swedish or something else definitive I am going to stick with the source document since it provides evidence and really the best evidence.
 

T. O'Heir

New member
George Patton competed in the 1912 Olympic Modern Pentathlon. Riding, swimming, shooting, fencing and distance running.
Duel shooting(dueling was declared illegal, Stateside, in 1839) isn't done at dawn with seconds. It's timed fire called Duello by ISS/ISU bullseye shooters. Old Bill Dibble's Page 647. Currently usually done with a cf pistol and turning targets with a 3 second exposure. Great fun.
The unreliable Wikipedia site is not the only place that refers to Dueling Pistols as an Olympic event in 1908. Reliable sites like History.com do as well. Shooting was done at a life sized dummy.
 

DaleA

New member
I really LIKE that we can have disagreements and still remain civil here at this site.

Just to add my $.02 and to put to use my:
"The Complete Book of the Summer Olympics" (Athens 2004 Edition)
it DOES include a listing for:
"Dueling Pistols, Team" 1912 Stockholm.

Good luck all.
 

Old Bill Dibble

New member
Do you really think the competitors in Stockholm used muzzleloading pistols?

Who said that?

:confused:

Again, from what was posted previously:

Any revolver or pistol, with open fore- and back-sights.

This has nothing to do with a particular style of pistol. You do understand that words have more than one meaning? Perhaps this is where the confusion lies.

If you don't understand that is ok, just don't twist what I wrote.
 
Can we at least agree that, whether it was or wasn't in the past, it should be in the future?

Not at each other, but at timed exposure targets or something similar as described above.

IOC is diminishing every martial aspect of the Olympics.
 

mete

New member
IIRC Patton apparently put two rounds in the same hole ! But that couldn't be proven so only one round counted ! Now there is a moving paper behind the target to be able to count rounds !
 
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