Piracy on Ships

[ncpatriot]

I haven't seen this on here before.

Last month's America's First Freedom magazine had an article about an armed ship's captain who had used guns to deter pirates. Had info on why the shipping lines and maritime officials didn't want armed crews, etc. Seems a no brainer to me. Sirens and water cannon are like fighting forest fires with squirt guns. 1 of the few things I support Obama on was his ordering the Navy to shoot a pirate. Let a few get killed and piracy will stop, in MHO. The captain said most nations allow armed ships, some require guns to be locked up while in port.

Feedback??

 

[rattletrap1970]

Hell, give me nice quarters, arm me with my choice of weapons, feed me and let me squirrel away a little nest egg. I'll live aboard ship and cap these dirtbags.

 

[ClayInTx]

Marines again?

...to the shores of Tripoli.

 

[Venom1956]

I'm with Rattletrap on that one, sign me up! I have no love for violence but I'd do it, once the realize that what they prey on has claws and teeth they'll stop.

 

[BlueTrain]

Piracy is one of the reasons nations have navies and marines.

 

[The Great Mahoo]

Piracy is a very severe problem in some areas, one which absolutely cripples some shipping lanes entirely. Now, I am no expert on the matter, but I think it easy to over-look a lot of things on the matter here.

1, most people who work on sea-vessels are not trained in any way with firearms. There is a hell of a lot of metal on ships, any shots fired would very likely result in riccocets and extremely unpredictable landings for those rounds. Not to mention many ships carry dangerous cargo, whose containers could be breached and result in leakage/explosions/severe contamination/etc.

2. Ships are isolated places, which some people cannot handle mentally. Living in close quarters for long periods can put a lot of strain on relationships, especially given the long-hours of hard work required on commercial shipping vessels. Add in alcohol and possible contraband, and suddenly firearms don't mix well at all.

3. What should be most obvious is where these ships are found. Anytime a ship is off shore of a country, it is subject to that nation's laws until it returns to international water. Since very few contries support any kinds of rights on firearms (usually created to deter outlaws and piracy oddly enough), any shipping company would quickly find themselves in violation and with a whole crew locked in some god-forsaken place very quicky if they had firearms on board.

I'm not saying that I 100% agree with it, but I certainly understand why firearms are prohibited on most vessels. If I were on one, I would certainly want my gun to feel safer. That said, I wouldn't really want a crew armed, knowing what all could go bad very quickly. I'd be much more concerned about some dispute turning fatal quickly than the off chance of piracy on my vessel... Sadly, the conditions just don't breed resposible firearms managment.

I certainly would love to just shoot some skeet off the side of the deck out in the ocean, though...

 

[rattletrap1970]

While I do agree that your reasons presented are valid, I have to disagree with the argument. A single person or team of trained persons on a ship with sole access to the weapons mentioned would not be a problem. The crews of these ships are generally professionals with experience with isolation and cramped quarters. I have to believe that these people aren't picked up at random an thrown onto a cargo ship.
.
I also agree some sunset skeet off the stern would be fantastic.

 

[Venom1956]

Nice post well thought out points. God forbid a brawl would turn into a shootout. professionals they may be but with any two people their can be conflict.

I think if they where properly stored lock away and perhaps a few certain members of the crew able to access it when the need arises.

the Captain should always be armed! How else are you gonna crush those treacherous mutineers?

 

[zxcvbob]

I kind of like the water cannon idea, if they could focus it down to nice 1/4" or so stream at 50000 psi. (imagine what that would do to a body trying to board the ship. Talk about terror...) That's what they use to quarry granite, but I don't know what kind of nozzle would keep the stream from breaking up out to a useful distance.

 

[rattletrap1970]

I think the water canon idea is good too... If you fill it with napalm.

 

[Mr Dish]

It still baffles me. No matter where you look, no matter where you go...
...The problem still boils down to the simple fact...

The only people with the problem are the ones who are trying to follow the rules that someone else made up while sitting at a nice safe desk.

...Meanwhile, back in the real world, the bad guys are making up their own rules to the games that they are currently playing.

As long as you follow the rules made by the "desk guy"...you are screwed.

...Or maybe I'm just in a wierd mood today....

 

[B. Lahey]

Insurance companies are a big part of the push for disarmed ships. They charge insane amounts of money to insure ships in these dangerous areas, and they make so much money from the problem they don't want the problem to go away. They pay off pirates a few times a year for a few million a pop; that's a very small price to pay for the billions they rake in from insuring all of the ships the pirates don't get. Insurance companies are politically connected in every corner of the world, so if you wonder about the bizarre policies of foreign ports regarding arms, there's your answer.

It's too big of a moneymaker to worry about little things like the lives of crew and the impact pirates have on the global economy.

 

[noelf2]

Insurance companies are a big part of the push for disarmed ships. They charge insane amounts of money to insure ships in these dangerous areas, and they make so much money from the problem they don't want the problem to go away.

Well then, by God, we need shipping insurance reform. We need to force all ships and boats (down to the smallest dinghy) to pay for pirate insurance. Since we know that pirates will be looting and pillaging anyway, we need to take money from some of the most successful shipping companies and spread that wealth over to the smaller, less successful / most robbed shippers and oarsmen as well...

 

[BlueTrain]

I have no information on insurance rates for shipping myself, so I can't comment on that. But a ship's crew isn't that big any more. Even if the entire crew is on duty, a few hands are still required to actually operate the ship. And although there are now a fair number of warships from many countries operating in that general area, chiefly because those countries have shipping coming and going all the time, it is still a big ocean.

 

[kraigwy]

No matter where or when, you have to be prepared for pirates.

Even my grandkids know this.

 

[ClayInTx]

Kraig,

That’s a nice lake you have there.....


....for Wyoming, that is.


But your boat needs a motor....

I have a roto-tiller that should do it.


Wyoming is a nice state. Visited there a couple of times. Drove through the Wyoming National Forest—right between both trees.



Clay

Sorry, dat ol' Debil jus' won't lemme 'lone.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Mahoo, your arguments sound so much like those against carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. For hundreds of years merchant ships were well armed under worse conditions and it was not a significant problem. I believe many on ships still carry knives and tools easily converted to blunt object weapons, why aren't they bludgeoning each other to death with more regularity?

Have you all seen the boats these pirates attack in? They are thin skinned hulks of junk. I am positive one half decently trained crew member could repel these attacks with a shotgun and a big box of 00 buck out of a 3.5 mag. You start peppering one of these pirate ships with a steady stream of it and it is going to turn bad for those on the pirate ships. They don't have doctors and antibiotics. They are going to die from almost any gunshot wound.

 

[TailGator]

Kraig

I'm guessing the tide must have gone out pretty fast.

Cute picture by an obviously and justifiably proud grampa.

 

[qcpunk]

Remember, the ship is Private Property. If the company who Owns or Operates the vessel demands that the vessel must be firearm free, then so it must be, or leave.

I'm in the certification process to get into Merchant Marines, have my TWIC, and believe me, I would be willing to spend out the rear-end for a stock of frangibles and be permitted to have my AR and Pistol onboard, but that just isn't going to happen any time soon.

Water cannons and anything which can be thrown overboard are your only true defenses against pirates boarding a ship. Heck, you can't even do anything until they are Actively Boarding anyways.

Edit; Plus, the companies are concerned with mutinay as well. Yes, it does still happen.

 

[johns7022]

I watched the congressional hearings on Piracy, they brought in some CEOs of major companies, told some interesting pirate stories, got us all up to speed on shipping, and I was left with these ideas..

- Shipping companies move billions of dollars worth of merchandise and can more then justify the expense putting some security personell on board the high risk routes..but they haven't, because they are cheap...just like the airlines were with regard to putting armored doors on cockpits...a recommendation made decades ago..in the 70s, when hijackings were the rage...

The only valid argument the CEOs countered against putting armed personel on board these ships is the assertion that in port, the country being visited might not allow the kinds of weapons needed to rappel pirates...

In reality in the type of places where piracy is a problem....Africa, SE Asia...it's not a problem to 'talk' to the right 'authorities' and get a permit or something to have firearms locked up in a safe, in port, ect...

So I am curious, how many millions in ransons, how many ships and thier cargos they will lose ect, untill they decide to put some ex-seal on board with a shotgun to sweep the pirates off the deck....