picking out a small frame revolver

[meat]

I am interested in getting a small frame revolver to be used for personal carry and to teach my fiance how to shoot. I would like to get a .357 Mag so I have both the option of shooting this round and the .38 special. My concern is that I have been told that .38 specials don't perform as well ballistically when shot from a .357 and that the accuracy suffers because of the "gap" or extra space that is present in the cylinder when you use .38's in a .357. I've also heard that this can put undue stress on the forcing cone as well as making it much dirtier and harder to clean than if you were to just use .357 loads. Maybe someone can clear this up for me.
The guns that have caught my eye are:
1) Ruger SP101 w/ 3 1/16" barrel (which I've actually shot and liked it mucho) Pros: strong frame, Good customer service, good accuracy, easy maintenance (disassembly) Cons: trigger isn't as good as the S&W.

2) The S&W M65 LS (the fact that it's a woman's gun doesn't bother me as much as their political dealings) Pros: Good trigger, holds 6 rounds. Cons: S&W politics, Heard that their quality has gone downhill, not as rugged as the Ruger

3) The S&w Model 60. Pros and cons: same as above.

I want this revolver to have a 3" barrel because this seems to allow for somewhat better accuracy and ballistic performance, yet it still lends itself to carry. However, to get back to the ammo question, if the above is true about the .38's performance degrading from a .357, would I be better of just getting a .38? I'd really like to have the .357 w/ the option to shoot .38 specials

 

[MrAcheson]

I was lead to understand that the performance degradation of a 38/357 over a pure 38 is only about 50fps. Thats not very much really. As for accuracy, lots of competition shooters fire .38s out of their .357s because of the lighter recoil.

 

[Hutch]

Meat, politics aside for the discussion. If you plan to carry a revolver in a belt or paddle holster, I'd definately recommend the 3" M65. If you can, find a used one, or a used 3" M13 (same thing as the M65 but either blued or nickel-plated). The added heft of the K-frame is of great help in taming recoil. If you're preferred method of carry is IWB or in a pocket, then the J-frames (M60's, etc.) MIGHT be a bit more comfortable, but the K-frame is, IMHO, much easier to shoot well.

Regarding the accuracy of .38's in .357 chambers, well, you'd have to be very, very good indeed, as in, a world class pistolero to be able to tell the difference. Especially in 3" CCW revos.

 

[Ala Dan]

Meat-

If you are interested in a .357 magnum CCW revolver, I'd
recommend the aforementioned Smith & Wesson model
65; or a 2.5" barrel model 66. If stainless is not to your
liking, then the S&W model 13 and 19 are the counter
offering's for this caliber. Also, the S&W 2.5" model 686
is available; but a bit heavier!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[meat]

Thanks guys. But does shooting the .38 out of the .357 hurt the gun, cylinder, or forcing cone?

 

[Ledbetter]

In my opinion

you are a lot more likely to damage or wear out your small frame .357 by shooting full-house loads than .38's.

Consider the 649 J-frame. Shrouded hammer with exposed spur for single action shooting. 2.5" barrel. All stainless. Can be fired from a jacket or robe pocket.

 

[Jim March]

I would tend to doubt that the "speed loss" from a .357 gun shooting .38s is as high as 50fps penalty over a .38 gun. I've never seen ballistic data supporting that. The difference in shell length just isn't all that much. The barrel-to-cylinder-gap will matter WAY more, see also:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57816

The important thing about a .357 gun shooting .38s is that after firing a lot of .38s, CLEAN the cylinders before putting 357's in there. Here's why: with any ammo, you'll get a layer of crud on the inside of the cylinder wall starting immediately forward of where the shell was. When you stick the .357s in there, you'll be poking them right into the crud left by the shorter .38s. Problem: if that ash layer is thick enough, when you fire the 357 the crimp on the end of the shell holding the bullet in may not have room to UNcrimp. Result: pressure spike, in extreme cases enough to blow the gun up (although that's not real likely with an SP101, they're tough little boogers). But it's still not a good situation, even the SP will eventually revolt at such mistreatment.

A lot of people will go to the range, shoot a box or two of .38s, then conclude their practice with a lesser amount of .357s - a worst-case scenario. Don't make the same mistake. If you don't want to do a full cleaning, at least take a fired .357 case (which gets "uncrimped" from firing) and shove it hard into the 38spl "ash layer", breaking off the worst of it and shoving it deeper in. A cleaning is better, but this will at least prevent most of the "pressure spike" problems.

As to which gun: my opinion is to get the SP101 and put better springs in. I agree with you on the 3".

 

[meat]

Thanks Jim! Great post and a great link to your information on checking a revolver out. I can't remember where I heard the info on the .38 being fired from a .357, but your post reminds me alot about what I recall hearing. FWIW, I think I'm leaning towards the SP101 for reasons of frame strength, ruger support, and what seems to be a general downward spiral about post agreement S&W products and services.

 

[bad_dad_brad]

You can't go wrong with the SP101 meat! It is a great little gun. Mine is a 3 inch .38+P. Can't say enough good about it! Note however that I do not carry it. I think she is a little too big to carry without the proper wardrobe to conceal her. For reasons best unsaid, I have to make sure when I carry it is deep concealment if you know what I mean. The SP101 is my night stand gun loaded with Federal PD rounds.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

meat,

Don't worry about the quality of S&W post agreement. As I've said before my post agreement M66 (received in politically correct fashion--free from S&W) is just as good as my pre-agreement 686+ and my PC 627 V-Comp (outside of the obvious Performance Center spiffs).

In fact the M66 is now the center of my attention as it is just pure fun! It will be getting the moonclip conversion when budget allows as I am just not big on speedloaders outside of IDPA.

Oh, and that integral lock? Non issue. It just goes along for the ride and disappears into the background. I never use it as I think anything short of lock up is silly.

 

[Maxim]

You do not want to shoot a .357 Magnum out of a small gun. My advise would be to stick with .38 or even .32 for controllability because shot placement is always more importiant than caliber.

A good small revolver is the Colt Police Positive revolver chambered in .38 Special, .38 S&W, or .32-20 chamberings.

 

[V-fib]

I really enjoy shooting my SP 101 3" .357. With winchester 110gr .357 jhp's there isn't much difference in recoil than with +p's. Plus you do have the alternative to shoot .38's if you want.

you won't be disappointed.

 

[NAVIGATOR]

SMITH & WESSON

PRE-Agreement----Post- Agreement...............FORGET IT!!

I have several of each and they are ALL very fine revolvers!

Smith & Wesson makes good, high quality revolvers/pistols!

 

[meat]

I don't know if you all read the thread about the present ruger problem: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130690
I find this really upsetting. I was beginning to lean towards the Ruger SP101, now I don't know what I'll do. If these quality control issues are true, the last thing I want to do is teach a newbie on a poorly manufacturered firearm. That could lead to a very unpleasant experience in learning and a potentiall dangerous situation!!!! Any thoughts?