Philadelphia Police Fire 48 Rounds Score 3 Hits G-17 Glock Accuracy???

[Master Blaster]

Hi you Glockers now dont get excited. Its true the Philadelphia police carry G-17 and yesterday in the course of a violent confrontation with a carjacker fired 48 rounds and only scored 5 hits at less than 10-15 feet distance. I think 4 officers fired alltogether but the details are still sketchy. After being hit 5 times the perpetrator who had fired at police (after a car chase) hit one police officer in the thumb with an unknown caliber (no perp gun found). It may later come out that only the police had guns and shot each other!!!!
The Perp sustained three wounds from 9mm in an unknown bodily area and then STOLE a POLICE car and took of on the second high speed chase over hill and dale. The police finally converged on there way back from a bank robbery or a donut shop / dog fight/drug deal, whore house, Pats steak. (favorite hangs o the philly police). converged and stopped the carjacker and recovered the police car.

Imagine when they took the peice of **** out of the police car he still fought 10 police officers, and the press called it police brutallity when they kicked and punched this poor BLACK 6'5" 300lb victim of the establishment and the man.
Now the police are being investigated on brutallity charges. A civillian filmed the arrest But unfortunately not the shoot out.
They BETTER get to the FIRING range and practice. They missed, this guy will now file a lawsuit.
I think they shot him with 9mm JHP. Probbably direct hits to the gluteous maximous, wonder if they expanded.
Oh the 48 rounds fired in a crowded neighborhood in the afternoon.
[This message has been edited by Master Blaster (edited July 13, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Master Blaster (edited July 13, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Master Blaster (edited July 13, 2000).]

 

[sks]

That clears up the stopping power debate and range at which you will likely shoot someone.

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The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!

 

[beemerb]

Master Blaster why don't you go the general forum and get more information.Its sounds like you have some but not even close to all of the information avalible/

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Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Hey, EVERYONE KNOWS that had those cops been armed with .45s, there wouldn't have been enough of the perp left to put into a cigarette box!

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

 

[Hard Ball]

It sounds like another 9mm/ Glock failure. The Glock seems to be difficult to shoot accurately under severe stress conditions and the 9mm seems to require accurate shooting to be effective.

 

[Master Blaster]

Thanks it appears he was shot 5 times not three as reported last night.

When they showed the crime scene I was asstounded at the yellow sign with the number 48 on it on the ground (marking spent rounds). The neighborhood was full of people and there were children playing in the street.

Sounds like the perp did not have a gun after all no shell casings and the police struggling with him could not say what kind of gun he fired.

Philly police have a great record of shooting each other and themselves with their glocks. ONce at lunch when I worked in the city I saw policemen running to a bank alarm with their Glocks drawn and fingers on the trigger. They ran right past me!!!! The bank alarm was false. Would they have shot it out with the robbers in center city at lunchtime with thousands of people on the street????!!!!

6 months ago a female rookie officerput her glock in the waistband of her uniform pants and picked up her 1 year old son. the glock 17 discharged in her pants when she adjusted them (caught the trigger??) causing fleshwounds and burns.

Guess they didnt tell her it fires if you pull the trigger.



[This message has been edited by Master Blaster (edited July 13, 2000).]

 

[Cypselus]

Obviously, it must be the fault of those damn plastic pistols. I find that when I grab my trusty nineteen 'lemn', turn my head, an' close my eyes, I can still hit an elephant at 30 paces every time, 'n that durn hardball makes 'em crumple like theys 'n hit by the right hand of the Almighty Himself, even when I clips 'em in the buttocks. Cigarette box? Hayell, there's just a bit of ectoplasmic goo left over.

Seriously, I tend to agree that the "perp" probably didn't have a weapon at all, and that this is just another sad case of stupid, untrained, LEOs going too far. Time will tell.

 

[Ledbetter]

Cypselus, I hope you really feel that way about the Niteenleb'n, as I do, and aren't just some sarcastic SOB.

Those Glocks sound damn dangerous to me. They shoot any old time you pull the trigger and they only hit what they're aimed at.

Better get me one. Oughta be plenty of 'em on the market now that Slickly Wesson has the inside track on our nation's patronage.

Sincerely,

Ledbetter

 

[9x19]

Perhaps if Glock would institute a "No sales to the Stupid" policy?

Ignorance can be cured, but Stupid is forever.

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

 

[VictorLouis]

It's NOT about the Glock, or the 9mm caliber. It's NOT about being untrained, or undertrained. It's NOT about shooting under "stress". It IS about what happens in the real world, when you are scared poopless that your life is in !@#$% DANGER. Such "training", for the vast majority of the rank-and-file, is ill-equipped for this reality.

 

[cuerno de chivo]

Scared ****less at close range. Ain't reality a b*tch. I'd say the the beat down is a training thing too?

[This message has been edited by cuerno de chivo (edited July 14, 2000).]

 

[Phillip]

I agree with VictorLouis.
I have no real love for Glocks, but I wouldn't turn one down were it handed to me.
That said, the problem isnt with the G17 it is with the cop(s) who don't devote enough of their time to developing their shooting skills.
A 12 gauge would probably have put an end to that situation much more quickly.

 

[schlickenmeyer]

Victor, you say shooting under stress has nothing to do with it, and then in the next sentence contradict that. agreed, police training is poor at best (here in minneapolis, according to their own stats, they miss 92% of the time). but it IS about stress. and adreneline, and endorphins. and many other physical factors over which we have NO CONTROL.(vasoconstriction, auditory exclusion, etc..)


[This message has been edited by schlickenmeyer (edited July 14, 2000).]

 

[One]

It's easy for armchair quarterbacks to judge, but til you're put in that situation best to keep quiet. Being faced with imminent bodily harm will effect accuracy. There is no substitute for training, but don't second guess the people putting their lives on the line, just because you feel that you are better. Having danced the dance, I'me here to tell you that when the **** hits the fan, good training will pay off. Not meant to be a flame, but the guys in Philly have enough probs, without being second guessed. The most important thing is that none of the officers were seriously injured.

 

[hoosierboy]

I know the cops in my town qualify to shoot twice a year. They shoot 25 rounds and more if they miss their target. they have to keep shooting until they qualify. For most of them this is the only practice they get. I bet anyone on this board has more shooting experience than anyone of those cops. Anyone want to challenge me on that?

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"

 

[dbrowne1]

Hardball-

What the @&%$ are you talking about? The Glock is the EASIEST gun to shoot under stress, and the 9mm is just as effective as the .45 by any measure available today. With a Glock, you have no safety to fumble, a big grip, and simple sights and controls. You have a big flat slide to act as a crude sight. As far as calibers go, ask any expert out there. Wound ballistics doctors like Fackler and DiMaio, cops like Marshall and Sanow, or anyone else in the field. 9mm vs. .45 is a dead debate among professionals and it's a draw.
The fact that these guys missed so much has nothing to do with the gun, and the fact that the perp wasn't stopped by 5 shots (where they hit we don't know) isn't surprising either, as ALL handguns are marginal stoppers.

 

[9x19]

BTW,

Did I read correctly that they were firing on an unarmed suspect?

Is his last name Diallo?

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

 

[jtduncan]

Most cops are not marksmen or sharpshooters. Don't confuse the two.

I've even seen SWAT teams practicing . . . crossing their barrel right over a teammates head or torso, shooting into the training bay rafters, reholstering with the finger in the trigger guard, not checking a gun's loaded status, etc.

I'm surpised they don't shoot each other half the time!

Most shoot only enough to qualify and then take the gun home to be reholstered for another 4 months.

Sad situation.

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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG

 

[Covert Mission]

A cop friend of mine, who IS a very good shooter, said to me in an annoyed explanation of why many of his peers can't shoot: "Know why a lot of these guys became cops? 'Cause the Post Office wasn't hiring that month."

Col. Cooper, Chuck Taylor, and Gabe Suarez will tell you that your ability in a combat situation will be maybe half as good as in practice, and if you can barely qualify in practice, well... that's why you see a miss to hit ratio of 9 to 1 like this one.

There's no substitute for practice.

 

[sigarms229]

Bull**** on the caliber. I'll give you a recent local case. Several months ago, Harrisburg City PD was called to a domestic disturbance. One male perp grabbed an infant held the infant up in the area of his chest, put a knife to the infant's throat and told police to "get out". Officers drew down, Sig 220's in 45 ACP. Perp started cutting the kids throat, 1 officer discharged 3 rounds, 1 round to abdomen, 1 round to shoulder, 1 round to head on left side of lower face. THE SUSPECT LIVED. He was taken to the local Trauma Center (where I work in prehospital services) and he survived the ordeal. IT AINT THE CALIBER, ITS SHOT PLACEMENT. The Infant wasn't hit by any of the shots but died of the injuries inflicted by the Perp.

JOHN