Patriot Bill passed blindly.

John/az2

New member
I feeeeeeel soooooo secure! :rolleyes:

Bastards.

Police State
Posted Nov. 9, 2001
By Kelly Patricia O’Meara

Rep. Ron Paul says the text of the USA PATRIOT bill was not made available for review before the vote.



If the United States is at war against terrorism to preserve freedom, a new coalition of conservatives and liberals is asking, why is it doing so by wholesale abrogation of civil liberties? They cite the Halloween-week passage of the antiterrorism bill — a new law that carries the almost preposterously gimmicky title: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act" (USA PATRIOT Act). Critics both left and right are saying it not only strips Americans of fundamental rights but does little or nothing to secure the nation from terrorist attacks.

Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, one of only three Republican lawmakers to buck the House leadership and the Bush administration to vote against this legislation, is outraged not only by what is contained in the antiterrorism bill but also by the effort to stigmatize opponents. Paul tells Insight, "The insult is to call this a 'patriot bill' and suggest I'm not patriotic because I insisted upon finding out what is in it and voting no. I thought it was undermining the Constitution, so I didn't vote for it — and therefore I'm somehow not a patriot. That's insulting."

Paul confirms rumors circulating in Washington that this sweeping new law, with serious implications for each and every American, was not made available to members of Congress for review before the vote. "It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote — at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote."

And why would that be? "This is a very bad bill," explains Paul, "and I think the people who voted for it knew it and that's why they said, 'Well, we know it's bad, but we need it under these conditions.'" Meanwhile, efforts to obtain copies of the new law were stonewalled even by the committee that wrote it.

What is so bad about the new law? "Generally," says Paul, "the worst part of this so-called antiterrorism bill is the increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants." He is referring to Section 213 (Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant), also known as the "sneak-and-peak" provision, which effectively allows police to avoid giving prior warning when searches of personal property are conducted. Before the USA PATRIOT Act, the government had to obtain a warrant and give notice to the person whose property was to be searched. With one vote by Congress and the sweep of the president's pen, say critics, the right of every American fully to be protected under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures was abrogated.

The Fourth Amendment states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

According to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which is joining with conservatives as critics of the legislation, the rationale for the Fourth Amendment protection always has been to provide the person targeted for search with the opportunity to "point out irregularities in the warrant, such as the fact that the police may be at the wrong address or that the warrant is limited to a search of a stolen car, so the police have no authority to be looking into dresser drawers." Likely bad scenarios involving the midnight knock at the door are not hard to imagine.

Paul, a strict constructionist (see Picture Profile, Sept. 3), has a pretty good idea of what Americans may anticipate. "I don't like the sneak-and-peak provision because you have to ask yourself what happens if the person is home, doesn't know that law enforcement is coming to search his home, hasn't a clue as to who's coming in unannounced … and he shoots them. This law clearly authorizes illegal search and seizure, and anyone who thinks of this as antiterrorism needs to consider its application to every American citizen."

The only independent in the House, Rep. Bernie Sanders from Vermont, couldn't support the bill for similar reasons: "I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and I'm concerned that voting for this legislation fundamentally violates that oath. And the contents of the legislation have not been subjected to serious hearings or searching examination."

Nadine Strossen, president of the ACLU and professor of law at New York University, tells Insight, "The sneak-and-peak provision is just one that will be challenged in the courts. We're not only talking about the sanctity of the home, but this includes searches of offices and other places. It is a violation of the Fourth Amendment and poses tremendous problems with due process. By not notifying someone about a search, they don't have the opportunity to raise a constitutional challenge to the search."

Even before the ink on the president's signature had dried, the FBI began to take advantage of the new search-and-seizure provisions. A handful of companies have reported visits from federal agents demanding private business records. C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho), another of the three GOP lawmakers who found the legislation unconstitutional, says he knew this provision would be a problem. "Section 215 authorizes the FBI to acquire any business records whatsoever by order of a secret U.S. court. The recipient of such a search order is forbidden from telling any person that he has received such a request. This is a violation of the First Amendment right to free speech and the Fourth Amendment protection of private property."
 

John/az2

New member
continued...

Media Credit: Contributed
Rep. Otter says the PATRIOT law gives federal agents unconstitutional police powers.


Otter added that "some of these provisions place more power in the hands of law enforcement than our Founding Fathers could have dreamt and severely compromises the civil liberties of law-abiding Americans. This bill, while crafted with good intentions, is rife with constitutional infringements I could not support."

Like most who actually have read and analyzed the new law, Strossen disagrees with several provisions not only because they appear to her to be unconstitutional but also because the sweeping changes it codifies have little or nothing to do with fighting terrorism. "There is no connection," insists Strossen, "between the Sept. 11 attacks and what is in this legislation. Most of the provisions relate not just to terrorist crimes but to criminal activity generally. This happened, too, with the 1996 antiterrorism legislation where most of the surveillance laws have been used for drug enforcement, gambling and prostitution."

"I like to refer to this legislation," continues Strossen, "as the 'so-called antiterrorism law,' because on its face the provisions are written to deal with any crime, and the definition of terrorism under the new law is so severely broad that it applies far beyond what most people think of as terrorism." A similar propensity of governments to slide down the slippery slope recently was reported in England by The Guardian newspaper. Under a law passed last year by the British Parliament, investigators can get information from Internet-service providers about their subscribers without a warrant. Supposedly an antiterrorist measure, the British law will be applied to minor crimes, tax collection and public-health purposes.

Under the USA PATRIOT Act in this country, Section 802 defines domestic terrorism as engaging in "activity that involves acts dangerous to human life that violate the laws of the United States or any state and appear to be intended: (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping."

The ACLU has posted on its Website, www.aclu.org, a comprehensive list of the provisions and summarizes the increased powers for federal spying. The following are a sample of some of the changes as a result of the so-called USA PATRIOT Act. The legislation:


minimizes judicial supervision of federal telephone and Internet surveillance by law-enforcement authorities.


expands the ability of the government to conduct secret searches.


gives the attorney general and the secretary of state the power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and deport any noncitizen who belongs to them.


grants the FBI broad access to sensitive business records about individuals without having to show evidence of a crime.


leads to large-scale investigations of American citizens for "intelligence" purposes.


More specifically, Section 203 (Authority to Share Criminal Investigative Information) allows information gathered in criminal proceedings to be shared with intelligence agencies, including but not limited to the CIA — in effect, say critics, creating a political secret police. No court order is necessary for law enforcement to provide untested information gleaned from otherwise secret grand-jury proceedings, and the information is not limited to the person being investigated.

Furthermore, this section allows law enforcement to share intercepted telephone and Internet conversations with intelligence agencies. No court order is necessary to authorize the sharing of this information, and the CIA is not prohibited from giving this information to foreign-intelligence operations — in effect, say critics, creating an international political secret police.

According to Strossen, "The concern here is about the third branch of government. One of the overarching problems that pervades so many of these provisions is reduction of the role of judicial oversight. The executive branch is running roughshod over both of the other branches of government. I find it very bothersome that the government is going to have more widespread access to e-mail and Websites and that information can be shared with other law-enforcement and even intelligence agencies. So, again, we're going to have the CIA in the business of spying on Americans — something that certainly hasn't gone on since the 1970s."

Strossen is referring to the illegal investigations of thousands of Americans under Operation CHAOS, spying carried out by the CIA and National Security Agency against U.S. activists and opponents of the war in Southeast Asia.

Nor do the invasion-of-privacy provisions of the new law end with law enforcement illegally searching homes and offices, say critics. Under Section 216 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Modification of Authorities Relating to Use of Pen Registers and Trap and Trace Devices), investigators freely can obtain access to "dialing, routing and signaling information." While the bill provides no definition of "dialing, routing and signaling information," the ACLU says this means they even would "apply law-enforcement efforts to determine what Websites a person visits." The police need only certify the information they are in search of is "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation."

This does not meet probable-cause standards — that a crime has occurred, is occurring or will occur. Furthermore, regardless of whether a judge believes the request is without merit, the order must be given to the requesting law-enforcement agency, a veritable rubber stamp and potential carte blanche for fishing exhibitions.

Additionally, under Section 216, law enforcement now will have unbridled access to Internet communications. The contents of e-mail messages are supposed to be separated from the e-mail addresses, which presumably is what interests law enforcement. To conduct this process of separation, however, Congress is relying on the FBI to separate the content from the addresses and disregard the communications.

In other words, the presumption is that law enforcement is only interested in who is being communicated with and not what is said, which critics say is unlikely. Citing political implications they note this is the same FBI that during the Clinton administration could not adequately explain how hundreds of personal FBI files of Clinton political opponents found their way from the FBI to the Clinton White House.

And these are just a few of the provisions and problems. While critics doubt it will help in the tracking of would-be terrorists, the certainty is that homes and places of business will be searched without prior notice. And telephone and Internet communications will be recorded and shared among law-enforcement and intelligence agencies, all in the name of making America safe from terrorism.

Strossen understands the desire of lawmakers to respond forcefully to the Sept. 11 attacks but complains that this is more of the same old same old. "Government has the tendency," she explains, "to want to proliferate during times of crisis, and that's why we have to constantly fight against it. It's a natural impulse and, in many ways, I don't fault it. In some ways they're just doing their job by aggressively seeking as much law-enforcement power as possible, but that's why we have checks and balances in our system of government, and that's why I'm upset that Congress just rolled and played dead on this one."

Paul agrees: "This legislation wouldn't have made any difference in stopping the Sept. 11 attacks," he says. "Therefore, giving up our freedoms to get more security when they can't prove it will do so makes no sense. I seriously believe this is a violation of our liberties. After all, a lot of this stuff in the bill has to do with finances, search warrants and arrests."

For the most part, continues Paul, "our rights have been eroded as much by our courts as they have been by Congress. Whether it's Congress being willing to give up its prerogatives on just about everything to deliver them to an administration that develops new and bigger agencies, or whether it's the courts, there's not enough wariness of the slippery slope and insufficient respect and love of liberty."

What does Paul believe the nation's Founding Fathers would think of this law? "Our forefathers would think it's time for a revolution. This is why they revolted in the first place." Says Paul with a laugh, "They revolted against much more mild oppression."

Kelly Patricia O'Meara is an investigative reporter for Insight.

(emphasis, mine)

http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=143236
 

longeyes

New member
First Political Correctness, then "Anti-Terrorism?" Will these two prove to be parent and child in the lineage of Control, both mind and body? Face it, there are just so many ways to "give offense" and cause a ruckus.
 

Waitone

New member
So what else is new?

Congress routinely passes legislation it has not read.

Congress routinely passes legislation known to be anti-constitutional.

Congress routinely proposes legislation that attack our civil liberties.

Congress at the beginning of each session swears to God to uphold the constitution, a document few recognize and fewer have read.

Congresss routinely passes legislation that seeks to transfer power from John Q. Citizen to the all-powerful federales.

Congress routinely writes legislation that can only be understood and interpreted by the courts of the US.

Congress routinely demonstrates to me it is a predatory institution that seeks to control or minimize me.

Congress is the biggest threat to my personal freedom and ultimately safety.

The "Patriots Act" is merely the next in a long line of dangerous legislation. You can tell something is badly wrong because you have too many natural enemies backing one another in opposition.

I think each and every member of congress ought to be asked in writing if they read the legislation and understood what it contained.

In the meantime, let the lawsuits roll.

I have no problem with enacting legislation that helps us defend ourselves from terrorists if it does not violate constitutional safeguards. I have a major problem with police state tactics and I fear congress has just opened the door.

But what do you expect from an institution that continues to give a job to the head spinelessrepublican Trent Lott.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
gives the attorney general and the secretary of state the power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and deport any noncitizen who belongs to them.

Hope no resident alien TFLers are members of GOA, JPFO or the NRA if the other party takes control in 2004... :(
 

Gunter

New member
AFAIK there is also a provision for detaining/deporting aliens (tourists for example) who do something "suspicious" (like visit a shooting school).

This puts the USA right in the class of countries not[\B] to visit, like Mexico, Britain, central and southern America, etc.
 

PWK

New member
My rep. Tom Delay, and other TX Republican reps like Dick Armey voted for this bill supported by ex-TX governor G. W. Bush.
A sad day for Texas.
What do these guys think will happen when a Democrat like clinton gets back in office. clinton got over 900 FBI files, illegally, and nothing happened now he could get that and more, legally.
A sad day for America indeed.
 

RickD

Moderator
I had no idea they would try something so blatant.

Ya can't tell anybody of the warrant? What about your lawyer? Can you (risk prison) and file suit in federal court, or will that be a violation of this monster?

Cripes.

Rick
 

Waterdog

Moderator
Do you think the present administration will wait for the democratic admin, to start carrying out these unlawful acts.

You all need to get off this democrat vs. republican mentality. They are the same damn
thing, with the same damn agenda.

Bush is an elitist, just like his father, and his grandfather.

BLIND!, damn right the people are blind.

Waterdog
 

Seeker

New member
First they came for the Cannabis users
and I did not speak out, because I was not a Cannabis user.

Then they came for the evil assault weapons
and I did not speak out, because I did not own an evil assault weapon.

Then they came for the "terrorists"
and I did not speak out, because I was not a "terrorist".

Then they came for me
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

Is it time yet?

You know elimination of all firearms in the hands of private citizens is on the their "To Do List". After that comes the crime of disagreeing with a gubermint policy - Oh wait they have that one in the works with the re-introduction of the Sedition Act.

Is this the land of the Free and the Home of the Brave or has it become a crypto-fascist state [1] ?

How long before TFL is considered a terrorist group because we are armed and some members (including myself) have made remarks disparaging to the Feds? Will our homes be searched while we are at work? Our PCs monitored?


You all need to get off this democrat vs. republican mentality. They are the same damn

Waterdog is right. What kind of choice for Pesident of the United States is Bush (Cheney) v. Gore? Hmmm... do I like the frying pan or the fire better?

I am so thankful that the media presents to us our only viable choices for elected leadership - Demican and republicrat- and doesn't confuse us with alternate options.

After all, where would a Libertarian sit? Left of the aisle or Right? What would happen after the State of The Union address? Would there be a Minority response, a Majority rebuttal and Other?

From here it looks like we, the Patriots, have lost. Only waiting to be rounded up or burned out.

Did I mention that I think the Patriot Act (as well as the War on Terrorism and the War on Drugs) is a Load O' Stinky!

[1] meaning that it's a fascist state but that this is carefully hidden from most people (more easily done if most people do not want to know); no jackbooted torchlight parades, just the complete dominance of state power over civil liberties and the natural rights of citizens.
 
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Dennis

Staff Emeritus
And with necessity, the tyrant’s plea, excus’d his devilish deeds.

-- John Milton,(1608-1674); Paradise Lost (Book iv. Line 393.)

Paradise Lost. How fitting.

When you vote for the lesser evil,
It is folly to expect any good.
You only get, less evil.

We knew it, we asked for it, we justified it, and now we get it.
Why blame the tyrants? They can look you dead in the eye and say,
"You knew what I was when you elected me."

But we had no choice, right?

Necessity is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves.
-- William Pitt, Earl of Chatham
Speech on the India Bill, November, 1783.


Okay, folks, all together now, “Whine in C Minor”

Refrain:
"Does anyone here think it would have been better to elect Gore President?"

Chorus:
“But it would have SO much worse under Gore!”

Remember, folks, no other candidates were "viable".

:barf:
 

Bob Locke

New member
Thanks for saving me the trouble of posting that, Dennis.

I still recall the serious flaming I took last year for talking about how there's little to no difference between the D's and R's when you get right down to it. All y'all who jumped on that train can pucker up and kiss my hairy white butt. The true colors are coming through, and they ain't pretty.
 

Scott Conklin

New member
Been reading news accounts of bin Ladens claim to have nukes and biologicals. While the source(a Pakistani paper) seems a bit suspect it wouldn't surprise me. Also have seen recent claims he's smuggled in a couple suitcase nukes. Again, not surprised.

My worry isn't in the bombs, which aren't that devastating(no more so than, say, a couple large jets flown into a skyscraper or two), it's the reaction of the sheeple. And the immediate advantage of that reaction the government will take. I know exactly what would have happened under Klintoon, or had Owlbert won but, sadly, it's becoming increasingly obvious there'll be no difference in the Bush/Ashcroft reaction.

I didn't like the smell during the election and now the stench is really getting unbearable. Hope I'm wrong but I think I'll continue to prepare for something ugly.
 

longeyes

New member
Dennis

Thanks for quoting Milton. I think there's something important we should always keep in mind: Another word for Freedom is Disobedience. Disobedience, for its own sake, without apology or explanation, is the politically, socially, and culturally unsettling engine of our survival in the face of the eternal forces of Control, however benign their claim. There is something "Luciferian" in our desire to be Free and we should not flee from that reality, however it may confound certain sensibilities that long for Order and Harmony. There is an outlaw spirit that must be preserved and protected or we will wind up with an entire world of tv-addicted tract developments, industrial parks with hive-like cubicles, and falsely comforting Disneyworlds. I for one say, uh-uh.
 
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