p14 or p17 .416 or .485 Magnum conversion

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samsmix

New member
A few years back I passed up a p17 in .458 Winchester. I wish I hadn't. I have a use for such a thing now.

I won't cut up a collector's item, but there is a poorly sporterized p17 in a LGS that might make a good heart donor for my stomper. The queston I have is: What will making the conversion to .416 or .458 entail, as far as barrel and bolt face goes?

I am looking for a 9lb finished weight, low power scope, and iron sights. I may be spending more that just a trip or two on the Kenai Peninsula, and I want a bear stomper for sub 100yd "encounters". If I have to go into the alders for a cripple, this will be my rifle.

(I know all about the .338s, .45-70, and a host of other's but this is MY choice, and I want an African magnum starting in "4"....or "5", but that's mighty spendy ammunition. :p)
 
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H

HiBC

New member
I have not been the guy who reworked the rails to get the magnum round to feed.I cant tell you how to do that.

Opening a bolt face is something a good machinist can manage in more than one way.I have used a Bridgeport and a small boring head with a carbide boring bar.

I have fired a .416 Rem based on the 8mmRem case.It helped me decide I did not need one.Its more recoil than I care for.

Both the P-14 and P-17 have been used as a source of long actions for magnum rifles.They work.
With respect for your plan,it makes a difference If you can do your own work,or if you have to pay to have your receiver reworked.Paying to have work done gets expensive fast.

You might look to the CZ action,which can be had in a 416 Rigby version.Try Brownells.
And you might look at the Montana Rifle Company Model 70 clones.
Not to trash the Enfield idea,just offering options.

Here is one more direction to consider.If you neck.458 down to 416 you have a .416 Taylor.It fits in standard length commercial actions.I don't know if it meets your needs,but it is worth a look.Common actions and minimal work ,pretty much just a rebarrel,make this about the easiest/most economical.Lee even offers die sets,and they form the 458 brass just fine.

Good luck!!
 
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samsmix

New member
.416 Taylor would work well, as would the CZ action. There is also a JC Higgins with an FN commercial action I could nab...but alas, no Magnum bolt face.

I think the first two are the way to go. Thanks for the advice.

Also, I see they are converting Mosin Nagants to 500 S&W. Not an African magnum, but a stomper by North American standards...but there is that abysmal M-N trigger...
 
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eastbank

New member
the p-14 bolt face will work for the mag case. a friend built a .450 marlin mag on a p-14 action and its quite a rifle, 400gr bullets at 2000fps at 42,5000 psi with 55grs benchmark. i have a siamese 98 mauser converted to 45-70 that will do the same thing with the 400gr bullets. eastbank.
 
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tobnpr

New member
Also, I see they are converting Mosin Nagants to 500 S&W. Not an African magnum, but a stomper by North American standards...but there is that abysmal M-N trigger...
Click to expand...

True...but the abysmal trigger, and the more abysmal "safety", is easily rectified with $100 and a Timney.
 
S

samsmix

New member
True...but the abysmal trigger, and the more abysmal "safety", is easily rectified with $100 and a Timney.
Click to expand...

Hmm...the plot thickens. I may now have 2 projects!

The p-14 bolt face will work for the mag case. a friend built a .450 marlin mag on a p-14 action and its quite a rifle, 400gr bullets at 2000fps at 42,5000 psi with 55grs benchmark. i have a siamese 98 mauser converted to 45-70 that will do the same thing with the 400gr bullets. eastbank.
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I had forgotten about the .450 Marlin Mag. This would be good too. Is factory support still strong with this cartridge?
 
M

Mobuck

Moderator
A "custom" rifle built on a P-14 action nearly killed me in 1997. I won't even pick one up to look at it now.
If you go that route, make sure the action is magnafluxed before and AFTER barrel mounting. A front ring over annealed for D&T and stressed by over-tightening of the barrel split vertically resulting is life threatening injuries. Even professional gunsmiths make mistakes.
 
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tobnpr

New member
A "custom" rifle built on a P-14 action nearly killed me in 1997. I won't even pick one up to look at it now.
Click to expand...

I know to stay away from the "DP" (Drill Purpose) marked receivers due to the unknown history behind it (I have read some were perfectly fine, but there was a shortage of drill rifles so some were relegated to that).

I was not aware of "issues" with receivers that were not "Drill Purpose" (?).
 
M

Mobuck

Moderator
"P" rifle actions can be brittle and have unseen cracks that may show up as a catastrophic failure later.
My rifle split right through the scope base holes on the top of the front ring. Most likely cause was stress from an oversized barrel shank compounded by the improper D&T process.
 
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F. Guffey

New member
What's D&T? I'm drawing a blank here.

I do not have a clue, so I will assume they are talking about a rifle that was designated for drill, training and practice.

Then there is a chance someone is getting their fingers tangled up over the keyboard.

There is a P14 that is stamped DT. What that means the Rifles were returned to us with a hole drilled the barrel immediately ahead of the receiver. Some of those rifles had the drilled hole and a plug that was welded. Others were drilled with no plug or weld. The DT had absolutely nothing to with the integrity of the receiver.

F. Guffey
 
J

James K

Member In Memoriam
A fairly common problem with P-14 and M1917 receivers made by Eddystone is receiver cracking when trying to remove the barrel. I understand that that factory installed barrels using hydraulic machinery and sometimes applied too much torque. That made the barrels extremely tight. There was no problem until someone trying to remove the barrel had to apply so much force that the receiver ring cracked. It is common to make a relief cut in the barrel shoulder before removing those barrels.

Of course, holes in the receiver ring also weaken the receiver, though normally not enough for any concern. Spot annealing the receiver ring prior to drilling is a common practice and again there is normally no problem. But over-annealing (like heating the whole receiver ring red hot) can definitely lead to serious trouble.)

Yes, D&T means "drilled and tapped". It was often used in rifle descriptions in the days before most rifles were drilled and tapped for scope mounts by the factory.

Jim
 
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Slopemeno

New member
I've seen so many barely-used factory .458's for such reasonable prices. True, most are push feed, but mine works just fine. If you want to build one, ok, but I'd go for a more modern action.
 
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F. Guffey

New member
A fairly common problem with P-14 and M1917 receivers made by Eddystone is receiver cracking when trying to remove the barrel. I understand that that factory installed barrels using hydraulic machinery and sometimes applied too much torque. That made the barrels extremely tight. There was no problem until someone trying to remove the barrel had to apply so much force that the receiver ring cracked. It is common to make a relief cut in the barrel shoulder before removing those barrels.
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It is not up to me to decide how they got that way, I do have to deal with it. Roy Dunlap; in his book ‘Gunsmithing” rated the M1917 rifles by manufacturer. His favorite was the Remington, then the Winchester. Then came the Eddystone, in his opinion it was anyone’s guess meaning no one knew what they were going to get when they started to build a rifle with the Eddystone receiver. I heard the story about steam powered torque wrenches. That makes absolutely no sense. I have 4 foot torque wrenches, I have hammer operated wrenches and open and closed end wrenches that come close to requiring wheels. I understand when threads are secured and bottom out the next thing to happen, when too much torque is applied, is the threads starting to be pulled? Meaning the connection between the two parts do not get tighter. Then there is the square cut thread.

When metal is pulled up and makes contact there is no chance the two pieces are going to get closer together, galling is possible. I have never removed a barrel that has galled. In the old days when the Remington was the first choice and Winchester was second there were those that rated the machine ability of the receivers. Very few old smiths had anything nice about the Eddystone. Roy Dunlap made a spot annealing machine using a 12 battery and carbon stick. I used a spark plug housing for an insulator.

F. Guffey
 
K

kraigwy

New member
I built a 416 Rigby on M1917 Action. It hurts.

Its fun to shoot if you load 5744, a powder for light loads.

I put a muzzle brake on it, and its reasonable.

I built the gun in the late 70s just incase I got invited on an African hunt, I would hate to turn it down because I didn't have a rifle.

Still waiting for the invite, I have a 375 H&H, 458 WM and the 416 Rigby just in case.

Until then I'll use 5744 or Trailboss to keep in shape.
 
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