"Other House" gun - AK or FAL?

L

LevelHead

New member
Got a house in NH on 100 acres where I go to get away from the Hell that is NJ.

Want to -ahem- stock up for a rainy day there :D

AK or FAL?

Both utterly reliable, but if I go either I want quality. I can get a Quality AK cheaper than a quality FAL, so I'm thinking AK.

I like .308 more than 7.62 russian, so I like the FAL that way...

I like carrying more ammo so I like the AK that way. Cheaper too...

I'm probably looking at a pair of whatever I choose for parts redundancy etc. and a pile of ammo, all sealed up and waiting for me to clean and maybe shoot them once a year.

I've got an AR, and while I love it, I want something that can be abused far more than the AR can. While the gun will probably never be abused (unless TSHTF), I want a gun I don't have to worry about (too much).

Your thoughts?

-LevelHead-
 
F

faraway

New member
What about a .223 Kalish design (Galils, Norinco etc) That way same catridge as your AR, and if the SHTF (hope not) same supplies as the m-16.
 
D

Destructo6

New member
7.62x51 isn't a house gun unless you live in a mansion or you have well thought out lanes of fire.

You could go the SBR route and buy/build a Krinkov. Now that's a house gun. Really, any AK would be fine.
 
H

H&K_Sniper

New member
house gun AK

Someone posted a reply about the Krinkov version of the AK.......I like that idea. You might want to check in to that nice en small, fairly powerful cartrifge, and eaasy to handle inside or out.

Actually theres a VERY VERY good gunsmith by the name of Marc Krebs, he can build you a personalized Krinkov built to your specs check out his site at www.krebscustom.com

GOOD LUCK!
 
J

Jeff Thomas

New member
Well, you say you have 100 acres? From your question, sounds like more of a .308 / .30 06 application.

First, you might enjoy "Boston's Gun Bible" ... see www.javelinpress.com . Some folks disagree with the advice, but there is a lot of interesting analysis in there, especially about battle rifles / battle carbines.

Between the two you specify, and based upon the venue, I'd vote for a FAL. Mag's are still cheap at DS Arms, and you can find .308 Hirtenberger at AimSurplus ...

Good luck with your decision.

Regards from AZ
 
J

Jake 98c/11b

New member
if ever you have fired a short barreled AK with a muzzlebrake you would want to avoid the Krinkov for indoor use. Yes, I know, hearing protection, but will you really have the time/presence of mind to use it? If you have a mid range rifle in a mid range cartridge (AR) I would suggest the FAL, my personal preference is all.

Other things to think about.

The .308 is not much more than 7.62x39 if you shop around ($129.95 vs 99.95/K). Easier to find reloadable surplus as well.

Biggest advantage of the .308 for the scenario mentioned is probably not range but penetration. What is cover for .223 and 7.62x39 is often just concelement for the .308. Concider the difference in penetration.

The FAL is more user friendly than the AK. The reliability is great but overall I am unimpressed with the AK, I know I am attacking some sacred beast when I say that but I think (remember, military background here) a fast reload under stress is critical. Better sights are a big deal for me too and I cant see how that safety can be very fast under any condition.

I don't think the answer is as important as the process used to derive the answer. Ultimately you are the only person who must be convinced by this decision.

I look foreward to the continued discussion, hope I can help along the way.
 
A

Abominable No-Man

New member
I think I tend to agree with Jake 98C/11B (not sure what a 98C is;
I KNOW what a 11B is, tho...Rakkasan!).

Perhaps there are other options out there...like the Bushmaster
M17S -(takes M16 mags) or the semi-mythical AR180B (also takes
M16 mags) for the fast reloads. Overall, I tend to lean towards the FAL, too- maybe one of the short-barrelled versions....

I think the ultimate house gun is still a 12-ga......

ANM
 
J

Jeff Thomas

New member
BTW, the STG-58A at www.dsarms.com has a great reputation for quality, at a reasonable price. Your FFL can order one for you ... and, of course, some FFL's will do it for a better price than others.

www.fnfal.com has a lot of good info as well.

Regards from AZ
 
M

Mikul

New member
With the FAL no one will be able to get within 600m of your house.

If you're looking to save a little cash, look into a kit gun built on an Imbel receiver. Then send it to a smith to have it tightened up. Figure $750.

If you can't see beyond 200m in New Hampshire, the AK makes plenty of sense.
 
A

A.Rex

New member
In the house? or Around the house?
I'd say AK inside, smaller/compact. FAL outside, reach out and touch someone.
Keep in mind AK means more ammo in magazine and carry. If you're just gona beat this gun, get the AK
 
L

LevelHead

New member
Excellent so far!

Let me clarify - I don't mean a "house gun" per se, I mean a gun for my other house. :)

My other house is more of a way nice hunting cabin with heat, carpeting, basement, bedrooms and such. OK its more of a house but I digress...

Anyway I'm there rarely, and should the world come to an end a la "The Stand", I'd probably go there to live.

There is the added benefit of it being NH, so I can but just about anything, though class III is not in the budget.

I'm looking for two identical good old-fashioned SHTF guns.

Of course so far the conversation is making me thing about two AKs and two FALs!! :D :D

I really like the cheapness (cost) factor of the AK, but honestly I know next to nothing about either. I'd go AR/AR-10, but the cost is prohibitive for my budget.

I really like the DSA STG-58 carbine, but DAMN are they expensive!

I really like the idea of a gun that always works no matter the abuse, and that's where the AK shines I hear. How's the FAL compare?

-LevelHead-
 
J

JIH

New member
Look at the DSA ST58A carbine, then. They're about $500 cheaper than the other DSA ST58s. You don't lose much in quality. Don't get one of the Century Arms FALs unless you can verify it has an Imbel receiver. Then, and only then, plunk down the $500. Otherwise, caveat emptor.

As to reliability... the AK, in any chambering or configuration, will beat anything hands down. The FALs are good, and will fire all day long, but you cannot bury the things in mud for a week and then come back, brush it off, and expect to hear a bang... but there is a reason that the Israelies went to the Galil over the FAL. (they liked the FAL... but it just couldn't take the constant desert dust)

As to accuracy... AKs can be accurate, but FALs are more accurate. 7.62NATO also hits harder than 7.62x39, 5.45, or 5.56NATO.

If you want to combine the best of both worlds, look into a VEPR II in .308. I still prefer a FAL to a VEPR, but I've been impressed by the VEPR... whereas I've always been thouroughly unimpressed by AK-type weapons (no interest in inaccurate guns)
 
J

Jake 98c/11b

New member
I know I will probably regret this but when was the last time any of you guys buried your AK in the mud for a month to see if it would work? The reliability is great but I have seen them fail on more than one occasion. I think their reputation for unfailing reliability is a bit overblown. Don't get me wrong, it is one of the most reliable actions out there but the only battle rifle/carbine that I have never seen fail was the M1 Garand. I know they occasionaly fail but I have never seen one do it, I have seen the AK choke more than once. I wonder if some folks parrot what they hear from others and build on that cult following for the AK, a lot of that probably began from soldiers who did not like the AR pattern rifles (there were reasons in the early days). Besides, given what I have read above this is a house gun, not a bury it in the creek for 6 month rifle. If it is hosed off every 6 months and re lubed it will be fine either way.
 
M

Mikul

New member
I have only seen an AK fired twice, and it jammed on both shooters.

I see AR's shot all of the time, and there is usually one failure per month; usually a failure to feed which gets blamed on either the magazine or ammunition.

My FAL will stovepipe occasionally when shooting indoors (I don't know what that has to do with it either, but it's never hiccoughed outdoors), but opening the gas port 1 notch always fixes it.

I see Garands fired frequently and they fail regularly for innumerable reasons usually because they're old and their owners haven't checked them out. The guys who know how to care for their Garands rarely have problems.

All of these guns have their problems. You just have to decide which ones you want to deal with.
 
J

Jeff Thomas

New member
Mikul, with all due respect, those were not very representative AK's, were they? Sure, there's plenty of room for debate, but I think most folks would agree that AK's tend to go bang pretty consistently when you pull the trigger.

As far as comparing the two, it is apples and oranges ... an AK is usually considered a battle carbine, for shorter ranges, while a FAL is considered a battle rifle, for longer ranges and penetration.

Regards from AZ
 
N

No4Mk1*

New member
Since you can afford a second house in another state with 100 acres I think you can afford an extra $500 on a rifle. Get the one you like and don't fret the cost difference, just keep it in a safe and it will not lose value. I vote for the FAL.
 
T

TearsOfRage

New member
Mikul, could you describe the AK jams? Since they are so rare, I'd really like to know what the failure mode(s) are. The only ones I have ever seen are failures to feed from using the wrong type of magazine (tried a 5.45 cal mag in a 5.56 gun, and it only failed when the mag was full) and one failure to eject which was a clearly defective cartridge. This is in many thousands of rounds.

OTOH, I go to "defensive carbine" shoots twice a month, and its a rare shoot where someone with an AR doesn't have a problem.
 
M

Mikul

New member
The AK jams I witnessed were at a distance. I was just watching someone else shoot at the range. Both times their AK was firing away and then stopped. The shooter yanked on the bolt a few times (one guy had a heck of time) and started firing again.

My guess is a failure to feed or a stuck shell, but I didn't have the opportunity to talk to them about it.
 
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