I'm away from home and my Jinks book. Someone has shown me a small S&W auto from the early part of the 1900's. It appears to be about 85% condition, has a 4-digit serial number on the front strap. It reads "35 S&W Auto". What's this li'l feller actually chambered ? The owner has three mags loaded w/ .32ACP ammo. Is this an acceptable alternative? Anybody care to speculate what this might be worth?
Original S&W automatic
- Thread starter Hutch
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
It's chambered for the .35 S&W semi-auto pistol cartridge, which has been obsolete since before World War II.
I can't remember the model no. of the gun, or exactly when it was made, but they weren't all that popular, and not too many were made.
S&W decided that it wanted its own cartridge to compete with the .32 ACP, so they brought out the .35 S&W Auto. Big mistake.
So, after about 5 years of abysmal sales, they rechambered the gun in .32 ACP.
By that time it was too late. The gun was pretty much DOA, and not all that many .32s were made.
You CAN fire .32 ACP in the .35 chamber, but the cases will bulge a little bit.
I can't remember the model no. of the gun, or exactly when it was made, but they weren't all that popular, and not too many were made.
S&W decided that it wanted its own cartridge to compete with the .32 ACP, so they brought out the .35 S&W Auto. Big mistake.
So, after about 5 years of abysmal sales, they rechambered the gun in .32 ACP.
By that time it was too late. The gun was pretty much DOA, and not all that many .32s were made.
You CAN fire .32 ACP in the .35 chamber, but the cases will bulge a little bit.
The S&W 1913 is listed in the Blue Book for $450 - 90% and $375 - 80%, so it would fall in that range.
I consulted Cartridges of the World, and under .35 S&W Auto.
"THE #% S&W Auto is actually a .32-caliber cartridge and is similar to the .32ACP. In fact, it is possible to fire .32ACP ammo in some 35 semi-auto pistols."
FWIW, they have a picture of the S&W 1913 pistol next to the description.
I don't have any dimensions for the round, so it's hard to say how safe firing .32ACP would be in that gun...
I consulted Cartridges of the World, and under .35 S&W Auto.
"THE #% S&W Auto is actually a .32-caliber cartridge and is similar to the .32ACP. In fact, it is possible to fire .32ACP ammo in some 35 semi-auto pistols."
FWIW, they have a picture of the S&W 1913 pistol next to the description.
I don't have any dimensions for the round, so it's hard to say how safe firing .32ACP would be in that gun...
To the preceeding I would like to add....for laughs?
"The .35 S&W Automatic is adaped to the S&W magazine pistol. It is a very accurate cartridge, has no unpleasant recoil and... is well adapted for target shooting.".......from the ammunition section of my Himmelwright, 1915 edition.
Same book gives a load of 1.9gr Bullseye drivin 76 gr LRN bullet at 809fps from a 3½" bbl. And that exact diameter for the .35 S&W bullet was supposed to be .3195".
Sam
"The .35 S&W Automatic is adaped to the S&W magazine pistol. It is a very accurate cartridge, has no unpleasant recoil and... is well adapted for target shooting.".......from the ammunition section of my Himmelwright, 1915 edition.
Same book gives a load of 1.9gr Bullseye drivin 76 gr LRN bullet at 809fps from a 3½" bbl. And that exact diameter for the .35 S&W bullet was supposed to be .3195".
Sam
Since I'm about to take possession of the S&W 1913 pictured previously, I'm curious as to the validity of the statement that it was possible to fire .32ACP in "some .35 S&W guns". None of my books have dimensions for the .35 S&W round, anyone have a comparison of it to the .32 ACP?
Mike Irwin
Staff
John,
Doesn't cartridges of the world have dimensions for the .35 at the very end of the pistols section, in a HUGE chart?
I didn't check mine last night, so I don't know if the .35 is included or not.
If you don't find it there, let me check some of my conversion references. I should be able to find it in Donnelly's book, if nowhere else.
Doesn't cartridges of the world have dimensions for the .35 at the very end of the pistols section, in a HUGE chart?
I didn't check mine last night, so I don't know if the .35 is included or not.
If you don't find it there, let me check some of my conversion references. I should be able to find it in Donnelly's book, if nowhere else.
Mike you sly devil, there is a chart, never noticed it before. As mentioned later, it's just slightly larger in all dimensions, interesting...
I'm not sure I'd want to risk shooting .32ACP in the gun, but I can see where the comment about it working in some of them probably came from. It appears that the rim of the .32ACP might be the problem area, perhaps OAL as well. I'll keep trying to find some reasonably priced ammo for it, have to at least shoot it once!
As mentioned later, it's just slightly larger in all dimensions, interesting...I'm not sure I'd want to risk shooting .32ACP in the gun, but I can see where the comment about it working in some of them probably came from. It appears that the rim of the .32ACP might be the problem area, perhaps OAL as well. I'll keep trying to find some reasonably priced ammo for it, have to at least shoot it once!
Hi, oweno and guys,
I never saw a .35 S&W with a pointed bullet; you might be thinking of the old 9mm Parabellum (Luger) with the truncated cone bullet. The .35 S&W does not look like a .32ACP as much as like a .380 on Slim Fast.
The .35 was made for a while with a bullet that had grease in it; when fired, the grease was pushed out through holes at the side of the bullet and lubricated the barrel. Also, the original bullets were made with lead sides and a cupronickel tip; S&W was concerned about jacketed bullets giving excessive wear, but lead bullets would not feed. Great ideas in theory, but expensive nonsense in reality.
Since Colt had the Browning patents sewed up (among them was the slide concept in a blowback pistol), S&W bought the Belgian Clement patents. The Clement featured a very light breechblock and had been made only in 5.5 Clement and 6.35. S&W wanted something more powerful but had a devil of a time getting the thing to work with the light breechblock. They finally used a doozy of a recoil spring, one so powerful that it was almost impossible to operate the breechblock by hand. So they added a disconnector so that the breechblock could be operated for loading the first round. But with the spring disconnected, the block has to be pulled back and pushed forward.
The safety system is also interesting. There are two safeties, a grip safety at the front of the grip and a "wheel"-like safety at the back. The latter can (in theory) be "rolled off" with the web of the thumb. All in all, an awkward system. Sometimes the genius of a designer is shown by how far out competitors have to go to work around his patents.
I do not think I would have liked to have been a designer at S&W in that period with the bosses on your fanny to make their stupid mistake work, somehow!
Note that there are still remnants of the Clement design in modern S&W .22 pistols, including the Model 41. They seem to have wanted to keep that "S&W look".
Jim
I never saw a .35 S&W with a pointed bullet; you might be thinking of the old 9mm Parabellum (Luger) with the truncated cone bullet. The .35 S&W does not look like a .32ACP as much as like a .380 on Slim Fast.
The .35 was made for a while with a bullet that had grease in it; when fired, the grease was pushed out through holes at the side of the bullet and lubricated the barrel. Also, the original bullets were made with lead sides and a cupronickel tip; S&W was concerned about jacketed bullets giving excessive wear, but lead bullets would not feed. Great ideas in theory, but expensive nonsense in reality.
Since Colt had the Browning patents sewed up (among them was the slide concept in a blowback pistol), S&W bought the Belgian Clement patents. The Clement featured a very light breechblock and had been made only in 5.5 Clement and 6.35. S&W wanted something more powerful but had a devil of a time getting the thing to work with the light breechblock. They finally used a doozy of a recoil spring, one so powerful that it was almost impossible to operate the breechblock by hand. So they added a disconnector so that the breechblock could be operated for loading the first round. But with the spring disconnected, the block has to be pulled back and pushed forward.
The safety system is also interesting. There are two safeties, a grip safety at the front of the grip and a "wheel"-like safety at the back. The latter can (in theory) be "rolled off" with the web of the thumb. All in all, an awkward system. Sometimes the genius of a designer is shown by how far out competitors have to go to work around his patents.
I do not think I would have liked to have been a designer at S&W in that period with the bosses on your fanny to make their stupid mistake work, somehow!
Note that there are still remnants of the Clement design in modern S&W .22 pistols, including the Model 41. They seem to have wanted to keep that "S&W look".
Jim
Mike Irwin
Staff
I went and fished the .35 S&W out of my cartridge collection.
It is headstamped WRA Co. at 12 o'clock and .35 S&W at 6 o'clock.
It has an FMJ bullet, possibly with a cupronickle jacket as it's a silver-gray in color.
In looking it over, I noticed something that I never had before, there is a tiny W stamped into the side of the bullet!
It is headstamped WRA Co. at 12 o'clock and .35 S&W at 6 o'clock.
It has an FMJ bullet, possibly with a cupronickle jacket as it's a silver-gray in color.
In looking it over, I noticed something that I never had before, there is a tiny W stamped into the side of the bullet!
I just checked one source, Old Western Scrounger (www.ows-ammo.com) and no luck. It was going for $6 a round or so a while back. I don't know if it can be made from anything, as I have not checked.
Jim
Jim
http://ammo@ammunitions.com claims to have S&W .35 for $63 for a box of 50. Not cheap, maybe the .32ACP isn't as bad an idea as it first sounded!