origin of phrase 'cop killer bullets'?

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spacemanspiff

New member
after spending a few days at home sick and having to watch crappy tv, i've become curious as to where the 'cop killer' bullets got their nickname. i've done a search here and just found references to it, and became bored with 15 minutes of searching, so please pardon me.
a rerun of 'walker texas ranger' had some ranger who found a gun that was loaded with 'cop killer' bullets, and was from what i could tell, the only way they linked the gun with a homocide. they didnt do any tests, just said 'yeah a guy was murdered last night with these same kind of bullets'. plus a show on the history channel about guns in the 20th century and the effects of gun control activists, kept referencing 'cop killer bullets'.

now, if these are simply hollow points, or fragmentable ammo, hasnt it been proven that these are more effective at stopping the threat as opposed to killing the threat?
if this has already been discussed to death, please point me in the right direction.
 
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Jack Carson

New member
They are refering to armor piercing ammo

and the term originated in the media, I believe. The idea is that they will penetrate body armor.

On one of the Lethal Weapons movies Mel Gibson shoots through the blade of a bulldozer to kill a bad guy with these rounds.:barf:

It's pretty stupid.

Jack
 
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Cal4D4

New member
I believe the company was KTW that produced a turned bronze, pointy projectiled law enforcement only round that sold in the 70's(?) for about $1/round. Network news showed a shot sailing thru a bulletproof vest of the time and the chant of "cop killer" bullets began. I am not sure there has ever been a case of a LEO ever being penetrated by one of these.
 
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KSFreeman

New member
3 coppers with the initials KTW. Round designed to burn through car doors to get BGs. Made more sense to them than carrying rifles in cities. Many departments did not use them because a lot of coppers are killed with their own weapons, plus Rule #4 concerns.

The media "discovered" this non-problem and began to beat the drum about "cop-killer bullets." BGs can grad school education that cops wear armour and to shoot the copper in the head or groin.

Any knife will make short work of a vest, unless the vests like the COs wear. Any centerfire rifle ammo will penetrate coppers vest. And if you know where the armour cover you can hit vital areas by going around.

Politicians suddenly wanted to prohibit any bullet that could penetrate a vest (that's all bullets). NRA wrote cop-killer bullet law which sez handgun bullets must be made of lead and copper. Of course, ATF now sez rifle cartridges can be pistol rounds, like the short Russian round.
 
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George Hill

Staff Alumnus
I believe this statement is still true today:
"No police officer has ever been killed by a handgun bullet penetrating the balistic panels of his vest."
 
F

FPrice

New member
spacemanspiff...

KSFreeman came closest to the origin. The guys who made up KTW did in fact develop an "armor-piercing" bullet for use by Law Enforcement back the late 70's (?). One of the TV networks learned about it and planned to do a show about it, OVER THE OBJECTIONS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. Up to that time, very few people outside of LE knew about it and LE wanted to keep it that way. However the network went ahead with the show. I do not know if they used the term "cop-killer bullet" in the show but after that the term picked up momentum in the anti-gun press.

As far as I know, to this date no cop has been killed by an pistol-fired armor-piercing bullet which has actually defeated his armor. They have been killed by bullets which have entered the sides, above, below, etc., but not through the armor. This does not include high-powered rifle rounds which will defeat armor other than metallic or ceramic plates.

Many times the term is applied to hollow-points which will not penetrate armor but will expand. This shows the media's lack of integrity/knowledge. Take your pick.
 
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Shawn Dodson

Moderator
I believe it was former U.S. Senator Patrick Moynahan, D-NY, who may have coined the term "cop killer bullet." Moynahan was a also a former NYPD officer, IIRC.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
I believe it was ABC that showed that little "news" expose.

As a result, (it was also showed again several months later during sweeps), lots of people found out that police were wearing bullet resistant vests, and the number of police officers who were shot in the head rose dramatically over the next couple of years.

The bullets never were used to kill anyone, but ABC (or CBS or NBC, doesn't really matter, they're all scum) certainly caused in a lot of needless police deaths.
 
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MeekAndMild

New member
Imagine a room full of hemp smoking brown shirted pale little guys who resemble Woody Allen, with little Hitler moustaches, interspersed with bigger ruddy complexioned Ted Kennedy sort of guys, some of whom sport James Carville haircuts. The smell of expensive cigars and brandy does a fair job of disguising the aroma, but the tinny sound of laughter and unmistakably frantic conversation is easily recognizable.

1930's style typewriters at the center desk with charts and diagrams covering the walls lend a surreal atmosphere, as if this were a bunker forgotten for 60 years; a row of computer screens manned by blue haired punks with slashed jeans and body piercings quickly drives this thought away.

'Cop killer bullets' come from the same place all the other cute catch phrases of the past 30 years...out the arse of the socialist press and DNC.:rolleyes:
 
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Walosi

New member
The KTW was law-enforcement-only, and was sold only on department purchase order, or signed department letterhead, which was verified prior to shipping the order. Because of the bullets' hard makeup, they were coated with teflon, to keep them from stripping the bore. Nyclad ammunition, originated by Smith & Wesson, existed prior to the KTW, but because of the nylon coating material were tarred with the same brush ("Nylon makes the bullet zip through the Kevlar fabric of a vest, y'know").

All the media hoopla, and the "buzzword" addiction suffered by the liberal politicians of the day, made these "cop killer" bullets a media sensation and served no one. The KTW was taken off the market, even though it might have been exempted from "armor piercing" legislation because of the restricted sales. It could have served usefully for some departments, and the Hollywood bank robbery some years back could well have been an example. The Nyclads were originally introduced as ammo for indoor range use. Their only "legal incident" was that the Nylon compound used in the first few batches had too much "memory", and would not hold the marks engraved by the rifling, in shorter barrels. As for them being "armor piercing" rounds, they are actually more like jelly beans - soft centers with a harder shell - compared to regular jacketed ammo. This is why the Nyclad HP is such a popular SD round.

The media and left-wing pols appeared to be ignorant in their rants and hoopla over this ammo - they weren't. Their aim was to create dissention and add to "the cause", which they did admirably. Although the media would never have allowed it, a good presentation of the facts surrounding these rounds could have made their side appear to be ignorant, over-excited hoplophobes, but no one on our side ever pressed the issue hard enough to debunk them the way they deserved. When the left appears to be ridiculous in their claims, fight them as hard as when they seem to be more reasonable - they want the attention, and when they get it, and are not debunked, they win even if it is just a half step.
 
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Dfariswheel

New member
As I recall it was NBC news. They heard about a new bullet that had been developed by a couple of cops for penetrating bullet proof vests. The round was closely guarded, and for sale to military and police units ONLY. Most were sold to overseas agencies.

NBC approached the company for the usual "your side of the story", and were BEGGED by the cops not to do the story. They told NBC that the bullets were unobtainable to civilians, and that most bad guys had no idea cops were wearing the new light weight Kevlar vests.

They told NBC they would be putting cops lives in danger, and repetedly begged them not to do it. Of course NBC rushed to do the story, where they coined the term "cop Killer bullet".
Within weeks, cops started taking shots to the head because the hoods knew about the vests now.

When questioned about how appropiate this story was, NBC fell back on the usual "freedom of the press under the Constitution", and the usual "The People Have A Right To Know.

Within days of the story, Congress Critters were talking knowingly about those awful, unjustifiyable "Cop Killer Bullets".

I doubt anybody ever tallyed up how many cops died for NBC News.
 
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spacemanspiff

New member
thank you all very much for the info. even some people i work with refer to hollow points as the infamous 'cop killers'. maybe now i can set them straight.
 
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Hal

New member
The round was closely guarded, and for sale to military and police units ONLY
Click to expand...
I don't believe that's true. IIRC,,,and it's been a long time ago,,,when I first saw these at the store I mentioned they were being offered to any and all buyers. These may have been early prototypes or something though. They were gawd awful expenive for what at the time seemed like a crazy idea.
 
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Lord Grey Boots

New member
From:
http://geocities.com/gebooth2001/docs/somebodylying.html

Statement:

"When the nation's police asked congress to ban the manufacture and sale of "cop killer" bullets -- ammunition that penetrates the vests worn by police -- the NRA lobbied furiously to defend the sale of this ammunition.[33] (Handgun Control Incorporated)

"The NRA's army of slick lobbyists even fought our efforts to ban cop-killer bullets specifically designed to pierce bullet-proof vests!" (COALITION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE)[39]

Truth:

The NRA helped write the law restricting the sale of armor piercing handgun ammunition to the police and armed services only. The NRA pointed how an earlier version of the law was so badly written that it would have banned most ammunition, including regular normal ammunition used for hunting and target shooting. The company that was making "armor piercing" handgun ammunition was owned and run by senior police officers, and only sold the ammunition in tiny quantities to some police departments and the military anyway. The ammunition was specifically designed to provide improved penetration against autobody panels and auto glass, and its design actually reduced the chance that it would pierce bullet-resistant vests.
 
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