Oregon occupiers found not guilty

cjwils

New member
We may never know what the jury was thinking, but this decision seems foolishly wrong to me. What would stop a bunch of homeless drug addicts from coming up with similar convoluted logic to justify camping in your local park, while claiming that the local authorities have no right to remove them?
 

5whiskey

New member
We may never know what the jury was thinking, but this decision seems foolishly wrong to me. What would stop a bunch of homeless drug addicts from coming up with similar convoluted logic to justify camping in your local park, while claiming that the local authorities have no right to remove them?

I'm not supporting the Bundy group so much as I don't tend to cast my lot with someone that is likely to be confirmed to be well outside of normal accepted behavior. Its the same reason I wouldn't claim to be a 3 percenter. I don't think they are a gang, or sovereign citizens, or anything crazy... But I could see some sovereign citizens clinging to that symbol.

At any rate I don't think these guys can be quite lumped in with drug addicts occupying central park. For a number of reasons. The Bundy's produce a viable commodity for a living (beef) and generally want to be free and unencumbered to do so. Most true drug addicts aren't capable of focusing on anything but obtaining their next fix long enough to produce anything.

None the less, respecting authority that doesn't abuse its power is very important. A strong argument can be made our government abuses power, but in the Bundy case I'm not convinced that they didn't know the rules beforehand. They did know the rules, they just chose to break them. I still wouldn't compare them to drug addicts though.
 
The FBI was involved? It wouldn't surprise me if the verdict was at least in part a big "F U" to the FBI for letting Hillary walk on her blatant mishandling of classified information.

"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
 
The link PNAC provided includes information indicating the government more or less admitted 9 of those who took up residence at the reserve were paid informants or agents and there is some documentation indicating the number may actually be 15. I think there were only about 30 people in residence, so half were government agents. Even I am surprised at that. I assumed there were one or two involved, but half...

Makes me think of some of the "terrorist cases" in recent years where a young person is developed into a terrorist by US intelligence agents and then there are big news stories about how a threat was stopped, when the persons only real contacts throughout the entire process were US intel agents.
 
Well, if Bundy's lawyer cleared the defense table in a fit, refused to sit, refused to stop demanding their immediate release(still facing other charges), I do not find it surprising he was forcibly restrained.
 

5whiskey

New member
Well, if Bundy's lawyer cleared the defense table in a fit, refused to sit, refused to stop demanding their immediate release(still facing other charges), I do not find it surprising he was forcibly restrained.

Agreed, and to further that...

"No, he's released on these charges. He's acquitted. Nevada doesn't have jurisdiction,'' Mumford yelled, standing before the judge. "If there's a detainer, show me.''

The Bundy's are facing additional Federal Charges in Nevada. Nevada doesn't need to have jurisdiction, and I can't fathom that this guy tried to get in a shouting match with a Federal Judge. These guys are sounding more and more like sovereign citizens to me. We can argue if the government has abused it's power in trying to prosecute someone, or not prosecute another one. But I don't think anyone argues that the government has the right to prosecute criminals. So the moral is, respect the process, but question how it's being used. Demanding that they be released to the point of getting into a pee pee contest with a Federal Judge, while knowing that they still have pending charges, is not respecting the process. IMO
 
We can argue if the government has abused it's power in trying to prosecute someone, or not prosecute another one.
I am more concerned with a pattern I perceive. A pattern of Federal Law enforcement CREATING criminals in order to prosecute them. People who express a general idea of doing something, and then have their hand-held by informants and agents until they have crossed over into multi-felon territory. If half the hold-outs at the reserve were somehow under the employ of the federal government, it is difficult for me to imagine a scenario where they don't affect the course of things.
OTOH, I guess we all know why they didn't storm the building. They were already in control.
 

rickyrick

New member
So,
If a good chunk of the occupiers were federal employees or informants, then who did all the damage to the facility that Portlanders like to remind everyone of.

When heated discussions come up locally, the reasons that they should have all had deadly force used against them get listed:
1) Occupied a federal building
2) owned and carried guns
3) caused damage, left behind feces.
4) law enforcement costs (tax expenditures) to keep up the operations.

That's not my opinion, I'm just Parroting what others have said. Seems like law enforcement is somewhat complicit in escalating the situation.

Seems like they tried the wrong offense to me.
 
Top