I've been using range brass to reload .45 ACP. This morning I was loading and had some .45 ACP cases that had previously been roll crimped and I kept on truckin' and loaded them as I do the rest with a Lee FCD to finish them. This last batch I loaded I loaded hotter than the 4.9 grains of 231 I've been using and loaded them with 5.2-5.3 grains. 5.3 grains is the published max load for a 230 grain LRN bullet. With the hotter load should I be worried that these cases were previously roll crimped? I'd think the roll crimp would make the case a bit weaker where it had been previously reloaded and crimped. Go ahead and run them through my gun? Thought I'd ask a possibly dumb question, but I'd rather ask and get a "duh, yeah it's ok!" than not ask and it not be ok and I or somebody else gets hurt.
OK to reload previously roll crimped cases?
- Thread starter djcantr
- Start date
Shoot-em! Lyman's max is 5.5 of 231 and I'm sure others go hotter. IIRC my 45 likes a slightly milder load under a 230 but 5.5 is right on the money for a 200 gr SWC. A roll crimp works the brass a bit more than taper crimp but one time won't affect the life of the brass, I generally lose it before I wear it out.
.45 acp should have a taper crimp not a roll crimp. If someone put a roll crimp on them it was to shoot them out of a revolver using moon clips. In a pistol the cartridge headspaces on the lip so with a roll crimp it would potentially seat too deep in the chamber and miss fire or only be held in place by the extractor, neither is good for reliabity. With that out of the way let me answear your question. Yes, it is ok to use them. The worst that will happen is you may get some that start cracking around the case mouth. Straight walled brass that uses a taper crimp can be reloaded dozens of time if done properly. Eventually they will all get cracks around the case mouth from belling the brass to seat the bullet. Shoot them till they show signs of cracking then toss them.
How do you know they were roll crimped?
When fired, the roll crimp "straightens out" and is indistinguishable from a taper crimp or a non crimped case.
Even if for some wierd reason your brass has a slight "roll" to the mouth after firing, the normal loading sequence of flaring the case mouth to seat the new bullet will remove that. All that happens is that the brass gets worked a little more, and without annealing, will likely crack at the mouth sooner than a case that wasn't worked as much.
Roll crimped brass (.38/.357, .44, and .45 Colt, etc) can all be loaded many times without problems from the roll crimp. How much the brass is worked (and firing pressures) are the critical factors.
When fired, the roll crimp "straightens out" and is indistinguishable from a taper crimp or a non crimped case.
Even if for some wierd reason your brass has a slight "roll" to the mouth after firing, the normal loading sequence of flaring the case mouth to seat the new bullet will remove that. All that happens is that the brass gets worked a little more, and without annealing, will likely crack at the mouth sooner than a case that wasn't worked as much.
Roll crimped brass (.38/.357, .44, and .45 Colt, etc) can all be loaded many times without problems from the roll crimp. How much the brass is worked (and firing pressures) are the critical factors.
I know it was roll crimped because I can visually see the marks from where it was roll crimped. I don't mean at the case mouth, either. They were at some time roll crimped just like a revolver cartridge. I can post a pic when I get home.
Had a good time at the range. All my reloads shot well. I was surprised, though, at how cleaner the 5.3 grain loads shot than the 4.9 grain loads. Huge difference. The only malfunction my Kimber has was the first time my uncle shot it. I have him a box of factory ammo to shoot instead of my reloads. He fired a round and when he did the action cycled and ejected not only the spent case but also a live round. I was sitting behind him and the live round flew back and hit my leg. I cleared the weapon and function checked it. All seemed well so I shot the rest of the mag and it functioned well. Told him to get a rock hard grip on it and push with his strong hand and pull with his supporting hand. Functioned well for him after that. He must have been limp-wristing it. Never had a handgun spit out an empty case as well as a live round at the same time.
Had a good time at the range. All my reloads shot well. I was surprised, though, at how cleaner the 5.3 grain loads shot than the 4.9 grain loads. Huge difference. The only malfunction my Kimber has was the first time my uncle shot it. I have him a box of factory ammo to shoot instead of my reloads. He fired a round and when he did the action cycled and ejected not only the spent case but also a live round. I was sitting behind him and the live round flew back and hit my leg. I cleared the weapon and function checked it. All seemed well so I shot the rest of the mag and it functioned well. Told him to get a rock hard grip on it and push with his strong hand and pull with his supporting hand. Functioned well for him after that. He must have been limp-wristing it. Never had a handgun spit out an empty case as well as a live round at the same time.
Here's the picture. Is roll crimp the wrong term for the crimp method that was used on these cases?
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Lost Sheep
New member
Like TMD said, they will get cracks in the case mouth when they are ready to retire. The cracks will not be dangerous (or evident) until after they have been fired (or the case mouth belled). If after firing, you discard them before you even invest the effort into sizing them. (You DO inspect before resizing, right?). If they get cracks after belling the case mouth, you will have to deal with the live primer. You can chamber the empty case and pop the primer (thereby wasting 3 cents) or you can put the case in your press and (slowly) de-prime the case and insert the primer in a new case. (A practice some recommend and some recommend against. You decide for yourself.)
No one will recommend (at least, not in print) you go ahead and finish reloading a cracked-mouth case and fire it, but I know for a fact that some people do it. No one I know is crazy enough to fire a case with a large crack in it (even if the crack is closed) or a crack in the side of the case or anywhere near the base. No one. Never.
Lost Sheep
No one will recommend (at least, not in print) you go ahead and finish reloading a cracked-mouth case and fire it, but I know for a fact that some people do it. No one I know is crazy enough to fire a case with a large crack in it (even if the crack is closed) or a crack in the side of the case or anywhere near the base. No one. Never.
Lost Sheep
Yes. Is that called a roll crimp? Isn't that where one would put a crimp in the case in a cannelure of a bullet to keep the bullet from moving in the case in a revolver due to recoil? Or could that crimp also be placed just under the base of the bullet as well to prevent setback in an semi-auto pistol?
Yes, I do inspect them. I look for cracks as well as any gouges or decent dents in them. I really am not getting any bell on the cases before I seat a bullet. I can adjust my powder through die to bell the case but if I do then the auto disk powder measure binds on the down stroke and it breaks the chain (Lee Pro 1000). I've been loading LRN bullets that have a beveled base and they all seat just fine. Occasionally I see a small amount of lead shaved from the bullet, but not often. Just a tiny piece about the size/diameter of a coarse hair. I've been seating them with the die adjusted out out to provide no crimp and then running through a single stage press with a FCD to give a slight taper crimp.
I've heard of people who are just fine with depriming a case that has a live primer. I'm not comfortable with that. I've had the need to deprime several cases with live primers and I've just put the empty cases with live primers in my pistol and fired them. Pretty good bang, but I don't have to worry about having a primer explosion when trying to deprime them.
A roll crimp is where the case mouth is rolled into a crimp groove or cannelure on a bullet. It's identified by a visibly radiused shape. A taper crimp is a slight tapering of the case mouth and mainly serves to remove the belling put in the mouth to facilitate loading. It is usually very slight, often hard to see. A good taper crimp is critical for cartridges that headspace on the case mouth.
djcantr
That is certainly not a roll crimp. It is often called an internal crimp and it is not necessary for reloads. If you tried to crimp on the cannelure at that ring you would not see your bullet.
45ACP is taper crimped and that provides enough tension to prevent back out of the projectile. Try a Google image search for "roll crimp" and you see many examples of a roll crimp.
That is certainly not a roll crimp. It is often called an internal crimp and it is not necessary for reloads. If you tried to crimp on the cannelure at that ring you would not see your bullet.
45ACP is taper crimped and that provides enough tension to prevent back out of the projectile. Try a Google image search for "roll crimp" and you see many examples of a roll crimp.
overkill0084
New member
It's called a Cannelure. It was done at the factory to help prevent bullet setback. Not a problem in and of itself. Use them as you would any other brass.
overkill0084 nailed it.
Its a cannelure on the case, and its done to prevent bullet setback (being pushed deeper in the case). Some brands do it, some don't. Nearly all the GI brass I can remember seeing has it. Load and shoot normally, its no problem.
Cannelure basically means a groove. On a case, its there to keep the bullet from moving deeper. On a bullet, its there for you to fold (crimp) the case into to keep the bullet from moving (in either direction).
Depending on your die set, the seater may have a roll crimp shoulder in it. While a taper crimp is proper for the .45ACP, for use in autos, revovlers using half moon clips will handle roll crimped ammo. And a roll crimp can also be used in revolvers when shooting .45 Auto Rim brass. My old Lyman dies will roll crimp .45 auto, if adjusted to do it. I don't though, I leave them adjusted not to, and use a seperate taper crimp die.
Its a cannelure on the case, and its done to prevent bullet setback (being pushed deeper in the case). Some brands do it, some don't. Nearly all the GI brass I can remember seeing has it. Load and shoot normally, its no problem.
Cannelure basically means a groove. On a case, its there to keep the bullet from moving deeper. On a bullet, its there for you to fold (crimp) the case into to keep the bullet from moving (in either direction).
Depending on your die set, the seater may have a roll crimp shoulder in it. While a taper crimp is proper for the .45ACP, for use in autos, revovlers using half moon clips will handle roll crimped ammo. And a roll crimp can also be used in revolvers when shooting .45 Auto Rim brass. My old Lyman dies will roll crimp .45 auto, if adjusted to do it. I don't though, I leave them adjusted not to, and use a seperate taper crimp die.