OK, just about set up to reload...some questions

[maillemaker]

OK, thanks to Santa Claus, I'm now just about set up to start reloading. I have about 1000 cases tumbling right now.

I have a few questons:

1) To start with, I will reload using bought bullets. I bought Oregon Trail Laser-Cast Bullets, 45 Caliber (.452 diameter), 230 grain, Lead Round Nose:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=610196

I weighed them using a Frankford Arsenal Micro Reloading Electronic Powder Scale 750 grain capacity. I calibrated the scale using the 20g weight provided with the scale.

Taking the weight of 5 random bullets, I got:
227.1
227.1
227.0
226.0
226.1
Average: 226.66

So the bullets are not actually 230 grain. They are closer to 225 grain. What weight should I use for looking up powder charges?

According to the booklet that came with my Lee reloading dies, for a 230 grain lead bullet I should use 4.0 grains of Bullseye powder.

According to the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th edition, page 382, for a 225 grain lead bullet I should also use 4.0 grains of Bullseye powder.

The Lyman Handbook does not speak to a 230 grain Lead bullet.

How many grains of Bullseye Pistol Powder should I use with the above 230 grain lead bullet?

2) The Oregon Trail bullet (above) says it is lubed. I assume I only need to use the Lee Alox Bullet Lube I bought on bullets that I cast myself, correct? These bullets are already lubed, correct?

3) I am using a Lee Pro1000 Progressive Reloader. The charge disk that is supposed to drop 4.0 grains of Bullseye Pistol Powder is the .43cc charge disk. I ran some cases through the reloader without seating bullets and checked the dropped charges with my scale. They all registered 3.8 grains of powder. Should I stick with the .43cc charge disk or should I move to a larger hole shooting for 4.0 grains?

4) What Overall Length should I be shooting for with the above bullet? The Lee Reloading Die booklet says a minimum OAL of 1.190 for a 230 grain lead bullet using Bullseye. Lyman says for a 225 grain lead bullet I should have an OAL of 1.272.

5) The directions for my Lee Pro1000 reloader say that the back 2 dies should never touch the shell plate as damage may occur. But the directions that came with the Lee Reloading Dies (carbide) say that the full length sizer (and decapper) should be screwed in until it touches the shell holder and then finger-tighten the lock ring. Which is correct?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

[maillemaker]

Another question. The above Oregon Trail lead bullets are .452 in diameter. I don't think I need to resize these for shooting in a Ruger P90 pistol, correct?

Steve

 

[Adamantium]

I have been reloading for a bit and reload 45acp cast bullets as well.

1. Just use the standard 230 grain load data. The weight being slightly off is typical, lead or jacketed. Remember though (in the future), both lead and jacketed bullets use different load data so don't interchange. Just a safety tip.

An excellent source of load data for lead bullets is here, but many people will tell you to confirm it with a published source as well...

http://www.reloadammo.com/

When you work up your load, don't start at max, but start 10% below it. This is because pressure is different in every gun. Load 5-10 rounds at 90% and more small batches working your way up to max load. Inspect brass after every shot for signs of pressure.

http://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/reloa...e-signals.html

I personally use 4.3 grains under a 230 LRN, but work a load up yourself and test for both safety and accuracy.

2. Oregon bullets are lubed, they do not need to be lubed by you. On homeade cast bullets yes you will need to lube them yourself, and if you want to go the tumble lube route get a mold designed for it. I use this...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=148534
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=117892

3. It doesn't matter what your charge disk is supposed to drop, just what it does drop. Remember to work up a load from 90%, but when you want it to drop 4.0 make sure it actually is measured on a scale.

4. OAL is a guideline only, not something that it written in stone. The important thing to remember is when you work up a load using a particular OAL don't make it shorter without working up a new load. Making an OAL shorter will raise pressure. I'm on vacation so I don't have access to my notes on what my OAL is, but either of those will work as long as they feed/function your gun.

5. My resizer die touches my shell plate, but just barely. If you want to follow the advice of having it backed out thats fine too, as long as it feeds/functions your gun. I know it seems tempting to dive in and crank out hundreds of rounds with your new toy, but make small batches at first that way you aren't wasting your supplies.

6. They should* not have to be resized.

*if your barrel is .451 or smaller. With lead bullets you want the bullets slightly oversized so they don't let gas leak by and ruin accuracy and cause leading, at least .001 bigger. My P90 has a .450 bore so I resize to .451, but would be just fine using .452 as well. Just for example my 9mm bore is .3565 as opposed to the .355 it should be in a perfect world. As chance would have it the .356 mold I bought for it is the only one that actually throws bullets the correct size and not too large. They are basically useless in the gun. I use .358 bullets in that gun.

Here are directions on slugging your bore...

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

If you have no means of getting a pure lead 45 slug shoot me a PM and I will mail you a few. I grease mine up and tap them through with a wood dowel and rubber mallet. A hardened lead slug will be a huge chore so don't even bother.

A simpler way would be to just load them up and shoot them and see if accuracy is acceptable to you. You already have the bullets, so if it isn't broke why fix it?

Hope it helps and I'll check back to see if you have any more questions.

 

[noylj]

You should check one or more reloading manuals, determine the lowest starting load, and start that. Use the cavity that gives you the starting load or a lower load that is closest to the starting load.
Work up be 0.3gn increments, checking your brass as you work up for signs of over pressure and group size. In most cases, as you work up, the groups will tighten and open up. Why try to shoot max if the groups is opening up? You don't have to find max, just a best safe load.
Also, you should know the recoil with factory ammunition and should be very concerned if any load feels "hotter" than factory.
Powders are made in huge batches. Each batch must be adjusted to fall within the specification for a given powder. Because of this, the bulk density is different for each batch of powder. Then, there is how "packed" the powder is due to the various forces and vibrations that pack it into the powder measure cavity. Also, your cavity is not exactly the same as mine as there are, I am sure, different molds used and those molds have different degrees of wear. Because of this, I am sure that Lee makes sure that the loads for a given cavity are always safe given manufacturing tolerances.
Reloading manuals list the minimum recommended COL for a given cartridge and bullet. You, the handloader, should always aim for the longest COL that fits your magazine and feeds and chambers in your gun. The best way to ensure this is to remove the barrel from your gun and use it to set-up and check you sizing die, seating die, and crimp die by loading at least one inert "dummy" round. If you save and label this round, you can use it to quickly set up you dies the next time you want to load that bullet.
If you have the Lee 4-die set, you want the sizing die to just barely kiss the shellplate or show the smallest amount of gap. The carbide is brittle and the shell plate does not need to squeeze the die.
If you have the Lee Pro 1000, you only have 3 stations. You must set up your seating die to seat the bullet, then raise the seating stem up to the top of the die, then adjust the die body down until the flare/bell on the case mouth is just removed. Then tighten the die body down with the lock ring and turn the seating stem down to contact the bullet. It is a pain to seat and crimp in one step

 

[maillemaker]

Thanks for the replies.

Let me start off by saying that both the Lee booklet that came with my dies and the Lyman Reloading Handbook all start off with starting loads, which is what I intend to do. I really have no desire to find the biggest bang I can make - I just want to accurately and cheaply punch holes in paper.

Sounds like I should use the standard 230 grain data for lead round nose bullets.

The link you provided ( http://www.reloadammo.com/ ) also says to use 4.0 grains of Bullseye, which matches what my Lee Die booklet says. As it turns out, the author of the above web page also lives in Huntsville, as I do, so I have sent him an email and hope to speak to him on the phone.

2. Oregon bullets are lubed, they do not need to be lubed by you.

Excellent, thanks!

On homeade cast bullets yes you will need to lube them yourself, and if you want to go the tumble lube route get a mold designed for it. I use this...

That is what I did, I think. I bought the tumble-lube 2-bullet mold:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=517501

With these bullets, I should be able to drop them in a small tub and put on some of the Lee Alox lube and swirl them around and let them dry, right?

3. It doesn't matter what your charge disk is supposed to drop, just what it does drop. Remember to work up a load from 90%, but when you want it to drop 4.0 make sure it actually is measured on a scale.

Great info. I'm working up loads from the recommended starting loads. I'll try the charging disk the next size up to see if I can get it to drop 4.0 exactly.

You must set up your seating die to seat the bullet, then raise the seating stem up to the top of the die, then adjust the die body down until the flare/bell on the case mouth is just removed. Then tighten the die body down with the lock ring and turn the seating stem down to contact the bullet. It is a pain to seat and crimp in one step

Ah, I think I see what you are saying.

So I need to first set the seating stem to get the right OAL.

Then I need to back that off and then adjust the die body until the flare is removed. How will I know? Do I measure the diameter of the case mouth with calipers, or just see if the bullet fits in the chamber of my (removed) barrel from my pistol?

Then, after I have the die body positioned right, I can dial the seating stem back in until it touches bullet.

Question: I have some 185 grain factory round-nose FMJ ammunition. Will its overall length be the same? Can I use the 185 grain FMJ factory ammo as a "dummy bullet" for setting the depth of the bullet seating stem for my 230 grain cast bullets?

Steve

 

[Adamantium]

I pour some tumble lube into a plastic bowl full of bullets, swirl them around until coated then pour them out on waxed paper until dry. Remember a little goes a long way! It also stinks to high heaven just to fair warn you.

Alliant will have load data for 185 FMJ on their website so look what they recommend for OAL on that.

On the dies there are some pretty good instructions on getting just a bit of taper crimp. I'm not going to repeat them but read throughhow it has you adjust it with a flared casing. It should drop freely in your chamber and headspace correctly when you've got it right. Normally I have the middle part fairly well out then adjust it in to get the desired OAL.

 

[noylj]

Yes, first you turn the seating stem all the way up, then you screw the die body into the press until it contacts the belled case mouth. Turn the die body up about 2 or 3 turns and turn the lock ring down so the die doesn't move. Place a bullet in the belled case and raise the ram. Turn the seating stem down until it contacts the bullet. Lower the ram and turn the seating stem down 1 or 2 turns. Raise the ram and seat the bullet.
Now, the reason to start with an inert "dummy" is that the belled case will not chamber in the barrel (unless the barrel chamber is very generously over sized). So, you now need to remove enough of the belling to allow the round to chamber.
For this, you will need to turn the seating stem up all the way and turn the die body down one turn. Keep turning the die body down until all visible belling is removed. In the old days, we did this by eye. You simply look at the case mouth/bullet interface and see if you see any belling. You can also keep inserting the dummy into the barrel until it drops in and the bullet should be the block to chambering all the way.
Now, you have to lock the die body in place and start to seat the bullet deeper until the case completely chambers in the barrel and makes a nice "pluck" sound.
If you are loading a lead bullet, it is quite likely that you are shaving a little lead from the bullet. Remove this by wiping so the lead "build-up" doesn't prevent chambering.
As you can see, setting up a single die to both seat the bullet and crimp takes a while. The good thing is that you can leave the dies in the turret/toolhead and all you have to do is adjust the seating stem.
Each bullet takes its own own COL as each bullet tends to have a different ogive that hits the rifling at a different length.
You must make sure the the seating depth fits in magazine and feed and chambers in your gun. Again, a good reason to start with an inert "dummy" so you can safely chamber and test.
Finally, only make about 20 initial rounds so, if they don't work at the range, you don't have a large number to re-work.

 

[azjohn]

Lee also has help videos.
http://leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

 

[WESHOOT2]

Load up to 5.0g Bullseye.

Use an OAL of 1.240--1.265"; test first at 1.250".

Crimp the case mouth to .469".

"Make ten test ten".

 

[Miata Mike]

Lee also has help videos.
http://leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

Very helpful for Lee dies. I typed up almost word for word all 4 of the die videos for future reference and printed it up. I know for 4 hole turrets the changing of settings are going to be infrequent, but I don't care to be scratching my head every time.

3. It doesn't matter what your charge disk is supposed to drop, just what it does drop. Remember to work up a load from 90%, but when you want it to drop 4.0 make sure it actually is measured on a scale.

Did you fill the powder hopper closer to full or just put enough in to test? I understand that a full hopper gives better results. I have been measuring every powder load since I have to manually dump it in by hand. Using my Lee Perfect powder measure requires a good consistent motion.

I use Berry's 230 RNDS bullets. I think I will stay with 4.4 grains of Bullseye and use an OAL of 1.245". I worked up from 4.4 to 4.8 and all functioned. A little Bullseye goes a long way! I may work up some 4.0 and 4.2 loads and see how those work when the weather around here gets better. :barf:

 

[Rifleman1776]

You are getting good advice here. But your real help would come from reading the preface and explanations in the front of your reloading manuals. Reloading is serious business. You should read the instructions.

 

[maillemaker]

Load up to 5.0g Bullseye.

Use an OAL of 1.240--1.265"; test first at 1.250".

Crimp the case mouth to .469".

"Make ten test ten".

Thanks! Concise and to the point!

Did you fill the powder hopper closer to full or just put enough in to test? I understand that a full hopper gives better results. I have been measuring every powder load since I have to manually dump it in by hand. Using my Lee Perfect powder measure requires a good consistent motion.

I just dumped in a bit of powder to test. I did not fill the hopper. Maybe that is why I did not get 4.0 grains, but if so, that is worrisome. It means that the charge dropped is dependent on the amount of powder in the hopper.

I use Berry's 230 RNDS bullets. I think I will stay with 4.4 grains of Bullseye and use an OAL of 1.245". I worked up from 4.4 to 4.8 and all functioned. A little Bullseye goes a long way! I may work up some 4.0 and 4.2 loads and see how those work when the weather around here gets better.

I actually called up the fellow who runs http://www.reloadammo.com/ as it turns out he lives here in Huntsville where I live. He said 4.0 grains of Bullseye was good to start with, but there was some possibility that it would not be strong enough to cycle the action of my auto-loader.

So I'll make up 10 rounds and test them this weekend. Weshoot2 says it's OK to load up to 5.0 grains, so maybe I'll make 10 in 4.0, and 10 more in increments up to 4.4 so that when I drive out to the range I'll be able to move up in power if the 4.0 isn't enough or doesn't function well.

Steve

 

[rdmallory]

A bullet that is a little light is OK. But if you ever find bullets that a over or heavy be careful if you are loading on the max end of the scale. Max at 230 is over at 232.

Doug

 

[maillemaker]

You are getting good advice here. But your real help would come from reading the preface and explanations in the front of your reloading manuals. Reloading is serious business. You should read the instructions.

I've read them cover to cover, except for the sections on reloading shotgun shells.

Steve