OK, I'll Say It ... We're Getting President Gore

[Jeff Thomas]

I'm absolutely disgusted, but my gut is giving me a clear message ... we're going to be getting President Gore. But, I swear I will never recognize the basta*d as President.

Why? The Democrats will successfully get manual recounts in heavily Democratic counties. The logical pickup in Gore votes (see my statistical arguments elsewhere) will overwhelm what Bush picks up from the absentee ballots.

Bush may very well pick up another state or two, but it won't overcome the FL loss.

I sincerely hope I am wrong .... really I do.

Regards from AZ

 

[mcshot]

Jeff, I have the same sickening feeling. Nothing is beyond the Dems in their quest for control. Unfortunately I can no longer stomach half of my fellow americans.

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"In my opinion, anyone pushing through anti-gun legislation is a bloody traitor and should be sent up for treason" N.H. Stuart

 

[L-Frame]

This is exactly what I thought would happen. Gore will push until he can win even by one vote. Then they will start asking the leading questions. Do you think that the person leading in popular vote should win the election? Of course people will say yes, Why? Because they have been told they live in a democracy not a republic and then POOF President Gore. Lets remember they have no respect for the real rule of law. They don't care that the Rule of Law is what this country was founded on. The will use any and all tricks and scams to win the Presidency. They have the hearts of the media and the media will turn up the heat on Bush to concede, SPIN, SPIN, SPIN.

 

[Flaim]

I hate to sound down. But yeah. Gore will cheat and lie his way into office just like we knew he would. He is just like his master. God I feel like I am going to cry. Help us Lord.

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."

 

[glockguy45]

I have to agree a lil, even though in Duval(FL) county there are 22,000-26,000 thousand votes thrown out for same reason. Bush had a 2 to 1 lead in Duval. According to law its to late to request any further recount. And then watching the media yesterday, they were saying that the hand count has a certain time to be done. But I have to say dont give up untill its all over, you havent given up on firearms rights dont give up now...

 

[Rich Lucibella]

You guys surprise me. We're not at the end of this, by any means. To give in to such a defeatist attitude is, IMHO, unconscionable. To do so on the day after we memorialize so many of our predecessors who refused to give up is shameful.

What Gore is willing to do, we all know. I refuse, however, to give up on the American people. The backlash hasn't yet started....thus far it's simply been good drama to most. As we get closer to a FL deadline for certification (Tuesday), with no end to the recounts in sight, the American people and the people of Palm Beach County will begin to rally around the fact that we look like the corrupt leading the foolish...and they'll start to verbalize their feelings. Media or no, the People are just not that dumb.

Meanwhile, how 'bout we stop wringing our hands and put our heads together to figure out what we can do to help.

I mean no flame here, but recognize that I'm dancing at the edge of the envelope. If the above is taken as a personal flame by any prior poster to this thread, I will voluntarily ban myself from the public Forums until after a President is announced. Actually, I'd just as soon not allow my own thinking to be clouded by such negativity.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited November 12, 2000).]

 

[nralife]

A few days ago I felt the same way. It is easy to get depressed when all you hear is the biased media day in and day out. Baker is going to court Monday morning to stop the hand recounts. He has a good argument against recounting by hand and he will prevail in the courts even if it goes all of the way to the Supreme Court. Palm Beach County will NOT get a do over. There is no way to figure in the Nader factor. What is more likely to happen in Palm Beach County, is that ALL of their ballots will be voided due to all of the irregularities. That would be a very good thing and it very well could happen. The Republicans have 72 hours from the time Duval County had the state certify their numbers to request a recount, not 72 hours from November 7th.

Their is a lot of disinformation out there and it is designed to rob us of our will to fight. Don't let it happen.


Joe


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NRA Joe's Second Amendment Discussion Forum

http://Second.Amendment.Homepage.com

 

[Keiller TN]

That would be "Chairman" Gore.

 

[Wallew]

Rich,
No offense, the people ARE that stupid and that lazy (only HALF of us VOTED). We have been reduced to a country who likes to talk about how we were treated with injustice. Will we the people ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING about it??? NOPE. But we will write letters to our Congressmen, Senators, to GWB and AG and BC. Congratulating, complaining, whining, moaning, crying in front of TV cameramen, etc. BUT we will DO NOTHING to over turn the theft that is occuring as we speak in your state (no accusation on you).

In the land of the free and the home of the remote controlled lives (TVs, radios, cars, 24x7, instant gratification, CNN, VNS, etc), most people can barely keep up with what goes on around them on a daily basis. Throw in a real constitutional crisis and you've just overloaded most people who just 'want to be left alone' by those who want to control us (Federal government for those who need the explanation). And besides, how can you expect any more from the public when our information processors (the left wing liberal media) are too lazy to actually go out and have their own reporters calling each Florida county election precint to get a 'real' count, not regurgitating something VNS feeds them (like baby food - in one hole, out the other)??

And wait, everybody be still for a second. If you listen real carefully, facing the east, you can hear it. That's the balloon being blown up in Florida. They should release it in about five or six days, once the Democrats have 'recounted' the votes enough times to get their boy elected. Then the balloon goes up. Are you ready for that?? I think I'm going to go to the gun show today.



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MOLON LABE!!!

 

[EnochGale]

It's going to be Gore, the fix is in.
Saying figuring out what to do to help is meaningless for folks on TFL.

The GOP should have the staff and lawyers to do anything legal.

Remember this for the third party fans. If
Nader wasn't in it - it would be no contest in favor of Gore!

Thus, the GOP message didn't carry the day.
It is close because some Democrats didn't like
Gore.

Live in the political reality that the GOP message wasn't the winning one. Squeezing out another duck hunter for Bush is reaching a point of limited return.

Disgust with Clinton and Gore by Democrats
gave Bush a chance.



[This message has been edited by EnochGale (edited November 12, 2000).]

 

[Contender]

Just saw Warren Christopher on Russert. He was asked Flat Out that if the recount occurred and Gore still lost, would they THEN concede the election to Bush.

Old Warren comes back with all this evasive lanquage with about 5 hypotheticals and other garbage.

Folks, these people are NEVER going to hang it up until they get the result they want.

Don't forget, this is the party of litigation and judicial fiat. Their spin machine is in high gear.

And I'm TRYING to be positive!

Rich you are right in some ways but, in the public spin of this, the DEMS have the upper hand and the network in Florida to pull this off. I've also seen the Republicans get massively screwed in the past by the same method,ie.congress.

If the Gorites don't get their way, they will go into scorched earth mode to taint the whole process.

[This message has been edited by Contender (edited November 12, 2000).]

 

[Gary H]

It is clear that the Gore camp has outsmarted the Bush camp. It really has come down to who has the best winning strategy and not who deserves to win. Bush made the tactical mistake of not requesting recounts in heavily Republican areas. Why did he make this mistake? Simple, he felt that it was bad for the country, or was it because the heavily Republican counties did not use the punch system?

Do all of the counties use the punch ballots? Of the counties that don't, perhaps someone did not darken the circle sufficiently to alert the tabulating machine. The flaws in the system are obvious. This isn't subtle. If the courts decide to stay out of it and the state officials do nothing, then it is a done deal.

We all know that when you don't even verify that someone who votes is a citizen, up front, that this whole system is a joke when it comes to a close election. Of course, we might be the first to resist some form of ID card. No ID card means massive alien vote fraud.

George W. Bush is to blame for throwing so much money down the California rat hole. The Democrats had better internal polls and did a better job of putting resources where they needed to be.

The election is so close that no solution will provide a peaceful outcome. The next four years will be political hell.

 

[K80Geoff]

Rich...If it wasn't for this forum I personally would be spending the next week in the hospital on a heart monitor.

This place is like group therapy, it is a good thing that the members get to voice their fears and anxieties. It is the next best thing to a massage!

Please don't try to put in any curbs on the valuable discussion here! Your contributions are important!

Gary H is correct, the Republicans are being outsmarted and out manuvered. The Democrats are Schwartzkopf and the Republicans are the Iraquis in this battle. This has gone beyond the will of the people and now becomes the will of the best spinmeisters.

We have all put up with 8 years of agita (OK I can't spell in Italian)! It is coming to a head now.

Perhaps the Chief Range Officer upstairs planned all this to test our mettle. We have to remain strong and stick together.

My $.02

Geoff Ross

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I am no expert but I DO have an opinion.

 

[Will Beararms]

First off all of us are on the same page here, at least those who are posting. That having been said, some of you are doing exactly what the Dem's want:

The Demwits hope we will fight among ourselves. How can anyone say that Bush has done anything wrong? From the start, he has been attacked and punched under the belt from Hollywood and the media and many of you are falling for it. Don't believe me? Many of you think Bush is not smart. I challenge those who feel this way to suit up and hop into an F104 (?) and try to fly it-------he did and he is alive today to prove that he had what it took.

Remember how he handled the drug thing? I'll help you: he did it like a master causing the media to fianally shut up.

I applaud the Republicans for taking the high ground and regardless of what happens in the hopeful future. I will always remember that GWB did not lower himself to the standards of the Christophers, Gores and Wexler's of the world.

Many will say that we should slide into the sewers with those Democrats who are initiating this travesty. I say to do this will surley mean the end of the system that all of us love.

Control is important to most. I know it is to me anyway. Unfortunately, all of us are at the mercy of an information system that is clearly in favor of the Democrats. We are acting on information that they are carefully disseminating on their timeframe to achieve their desired result. We are in an instance where we must let go and let God.

Do not continue to bash GWB in all of this from your laptop until you have spent an hour in his boots. He's a good man and he may not always be the most eloquent speaker but he operates from principle and not from what is right for the moment as determined by a poll.

In the long run, this ordeal is revealing to most Americans what Monicagate did not do----------namely the rotten core of the heart of the Democratic Party. If it does not, then we have reached a point in the history of the country where those who favor freedom, morals and the rule of law will simply be in the minority.

Change what you can. Play the cards dealt to you and stop worrying about what might happen. As was well said in THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION: "Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'". In any event don't attack George Bush.

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited November 12, 2000).]

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Rich, no offense taken.

Immediately after I posted this thread, I also sent out emails to all of my rep's, senators, newspapers, etc. The message? This selective, manual recount of Democratic counties in Florida is an outrage.

Gary H voices my same concern - I fear that the Bush camp will have these selective manual recounts shoved down their throats, without having corresponding manual recounts available from Republican counties.

I become more motivated when the fight is on, and something must be done. And, we are certainly in political condition red.

Write everyone you can about this travesty, including newspapers, your local rep's, TV and radio stations, and so on. Let them know that this is absolutely unacceptable. Participate in any local demonstrations to show that you and your family aren't willing to accept this kind of political sleight of hand.

And, I'm working on a bumper sticker ... how about Gore is a Thief and a Liar ... He will NEVER be my President

Regards from AZ

 

[Gary H]

This theme of the Democrats doing what it takes to win and the Republicans doing the right thing has been with us throughout the Clinton administration. Unfortunately, the Gore-Clinton value system HAS been adopted by many Americans.

Nobody is saying that Bush is stupid. His mental facilities must be reasonable, or he would not have had such success in the state of Texas. This does not mean that he always does the smart thing. Our ability to honestly evaluate our own goes back to our basic interest in honesty and truth. I don't want this election through fraud. This cuts both ways. Perhaps they will recount every vote in Florida. If so, I will go along with the results, but this does not excuse Gore from raising all these red-herrings and putting the country through the political nature of this particular recount.

Let's be clear on this, Gore, if elected, will always put his best interest above the interest of the country. Can anyone say, "Clinton". Same ole, same ole...

 

[Rich Lucibella]

The general tone of this thread causes me to consider reversing my position. Many here are right, the Liberal way of fighting this would have been a challenge of the entire State by Bush. I'm proud that he refused to go that route and chose to take it to the Courts rather than create a media event.

And so it seems, we're one down: we don't stoop to their level. But I'll tell y'all what: that's not the thing that'll loose this nation to the Sociocrats. What'll loose it is that the other side consists of "true believers"; ours apparently consists of quitters. They *never* give up....we call ourselves "loosers" before the battle is engaged.

Know why? Theirs is the party of central organization....their adherents desire only to follow orders. Our is the party of individual responsibility...our adherents must act and think like individuals. They draw their power and will to win from the top...we must draw ours from within ourseleves.

I hear two main themes here:
1) We've lost....American's are lazy fools
2) We've lost....Let's take to the streets

To the first I say, so be it. Welcome to the other side....resigned, fingerpointing, helpless, frightened individuals looking for someone to "organize" them.

To the second I say, so be it. If you're in such a rush to take to the streets, be my guest. Just stop talking about it and start doing it. I get so weary of this armchair vigilante-ism talk. As though it somehow makes an individual look stronger after throwing up his hands and stating, "I've lost".

We sit here spouting our allegiance to values of men who passed 200 years before us. How dare we express such grandiosity? Those men fought a long political battle followed by a battle of civil disobedience and, finally, a series of blood battles. Wonder how far they'd have gotten if they had the likes of us in their time? As a matter of fact, I wonder whether they'd consider us friend or foe.
Rich Lucibella

 

[KenPaul]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rich Lucibella:
And so it seems, we're one down: we don't stoop to their level. But I'll tell y'all what: that's not the thing that'll loose this nation to the Sociocrats. What'll loose it is that the other side consists of "true believers"; ours apparently consists of quitters. They *never* give up....we call ourselves "loosers" before the battle is engaged.

Know why? Theirs is the party of central organization....their adherents desire only to follow orders. Our is the party of individual responsibility...our adherents must act and think like individuals. They draw their power and will to win from the top...we must draw ours from within ourseleves.

<snip>

We sit here spouting our allegiance to values of men who passed 200 years before us. How dare we express such grandiosity? Those men fought a long political battle followed by a battle of civil disobedience and, finally, a series of blood battles. Wonder how far they'd have gotten if they had the likes of us in their time? As a matter of fact, I wonder whether they'd consider us friend or foe.
[/quote]

Rich,

Your first point can be summed up this way:

On a level playing field, with two opponents facing each other, the one who lies and decieves will always win the fight. The one who tries to play by the rules will always be blind sided by unexpected and illegal moves.

I am not such a fool as to believe that Bush is an angel and does not bend the rules. But I do believe he bends them and does not break them. Gore on the other hand, does not even recognize that the rules exist.


Your other comment about our founding fathers is a home run. When I sit and think carefully about the greatness of just what was done by these outstanding individuals, I am always left dumbfounded. Then, when I compare it to what we face today, we have it infinitely easier that they ever did.

These men faced enormous adversity on virtually all fronts, and yet they forged a form of constitutional government that still stands today. Awesome.

For anyone interested in reading an outstanding account of the details of the American Revolution, particularly exactly why it started and how our Constitution was formed, here's the bible:

The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution
Bernard Bailyn
The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press
ISBN: 0-674-44302-0


Ken

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God so values free will that He gave us all the freedom to turn our back on even Him. If liberty is that important to God, it should be that important to us all...