Ohio at least trying to get there...

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Jay24bal

New member
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cryogenic419

New member
I can already see the Police Chiefs associations and political beancounters protesting this simply because of the money that the CCW licenses bring in. Its not a huge pot of money but anymore they all seem to want as much money coming in as possible. I'm sure a good number of the instructors out there would probably be against it as well as it would pretty much kill their business.

Personally, I think some folks NEED that CCW training class. I had a very good instructor, and while I pretty much knew everything that he covered there were a few folks in our class that were hearing/seeing/going through hands on experiences for the first time. Hopefully they learned something in that class. I think its good that some folks actually hear what the laws are when carrying concealed, what they can and cannot do, and some very basic safety rules. I thought some other states already had the legal to own/legal to carry concealed rules in place and it isn't a problem for them, I don't imagine it being an issue for Ohio either. I really do believe some people could truly benefit from some basic training though.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
cryogenic419 said:
Personally, I think some folks NEED that CCW training class. I had a very good instructor, and while I pretty much knew everything that he covered there were a few folks in our class that were hearing/seeing/going through hands on experiences for the first time. Hopefully they learned something in that class. I think its good that some folks actually hear what the laws are when carrying concealed, what they can and cannot do, and some very basic safety rules. I thought some other states already had the legal to own/legal to carry concealed rules in place and it isn't a problem for them, I don't imagine it being an issue for Ohio either. I really do believe some people could truly benefit from some basic training though.
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While I don't dispute that everyone can probably benefit from training, that really begs the issue, doesn't it?

Jay24bal said:
No other Constitutional Right requires a license, why should the 2nd?
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Once you decide that "training" is a prerequisite to being allowed to exercise a right, the door is immediately open to the thorny questions of how much training, who determines what kind of training, who is qualified/allowed to provide the training, how much should the training cost, how much cost is "reasonable" vs. how much is excessive, ...

Do we really want to go there? (Of course, we are already going there, in courts all across the country.)
 
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Nathan

New member
This is sooo hard! Why! <scream>

As a firm RKBA gun owner, I completely agree a right should need no training, or permit. Arrrgh!

But the we have STUPID....STUPID seems to be spreading like small pox these days. We have this thing called PUBLIC EDUCATION which was put in place to stop stupid from being sooooo prevalent. Part of stopping stupid is civics class and history....my kids seem to have some of that.

The part we missed is mandatory gun safety training in elementary through middle school. Them marksmanship, gun ownership responsibilities, what happens when you shoot, and maybe a basic respect for military purpose and service. That is how we get rid of CCW permits, training, etc.

I guess my point is that there is more to gun ownership than buying a gun, loading it and putting it in your sock drawer hoping you can use it in self defense and hoping your kids don't play with it or shooting the teacher they didn't like.
 
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cryogenic419

New member
I say some folks need that basic training....it truly worries me that some folks end up going to the cheapest instructor they can find and may not learn anything useful.

During my class it came out that 2 people had already bought guns, never fired them, and thought how you loaded the thing was simply by sticking a loaded magazine into the gun.

One of these same people thought that the no guns allowed placard some businesses have posted actually meant no revolvers, that their gun was exempt.

Don't get me wrong I think everybody who wants a gun should be able to have one. I would just hate for somebody who genuinely needs to use one for SD not be able to do so because of their lack of knowledge on how the thing even works.

I know this will probably not win me popularity points but here goes. Everybody likes to say its their right to ___________ (fill in the blank). With rights come responsibilities. Nathan kind of touched on this too. I am not suggesting that the responsibilities be mandated by our government. You want to carry a gun...go ahead its your right. Take on the responsibility of learning how to use it safely and at least follow the damn laws.

I only say this because there is enough dumb crap going on that gives gun owners a bad name as is. We do not need more stupid and moronic things to give antigun folks the ammo that gets used against us later on.
 
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g.willikers

New member
There was a time when folks in this country did not think in the collective.
If a person did wrong, it was on them and only them.
Everyone else just went about their business.
No one else was part of the blame, just the perpetrator.
With the exception of juveniles, attempts of spreading the blame were ignored, for the most part.
So, is it really anyone's duty to see that new gun owners are safe and know what is the legal use of weapons?
Or is it solely the responsibility of each of us, independently?
 
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cryogenic419

New member
I think it does come down to the individual. Even if you mandate that people have to take a class in order to carry concealed, it ultimately comes down to them choosing to learn or just ignore everything. If folks choose to not take on the responsibility of learning how their firearm works or what laws they must abide by there is a whole new word some of them might end up learning...consequences.

It is not my duty to see to it that new gun owners or prospective gun owners have a clue as to safety or legalities. However, if someone I know, friend of a friend, co-worker, etc is interested...I will take the time to answer questions, show them how something is done, refer them to good local gunshops, or even take them to the range. Its not my duty to do so, but I would much rather take the time to make sure the people in my life have the knowledge.
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
This thread is about an attempt to reform Ohio's carry laws. Let's stick to that. Discussions of larger issues merit another thread.
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
I can already see the Police Chiefs associations and political beancounters protesting this simply because of the money that the CCW licenses bring in. Its not a huge pot of money but anymore they all seem to want as much money coming in as possible.
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Normally I would agree this would be their approach and in this case I truly hoope it is. It wouldn't take much work at all to dig up a number of their quotes indicating even at the raised rates they lose money on the process.
 
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