Offhand shooting and upper-body strenght (esp. with heavy guns like M1A).

[Battler]

Offhand shooting - not the EASIEST way to shoot.

Although there's only a couple pounds difference, an M1A involves FAR more effort to hold up than a 30.06 Rem 700.

For these guns that are over the ergonomical barrier, I figure one would want a little more upper body strength to get the same level of support/stability in off-hand shooting.

Is there a good exercise people do to build up strength specifically for this? I figure holding the gun up itself would be one - although I'm pretty weak/sedentary and I could only hold up the M1A, looking thru the sites, for 2 minutes (this was holding limit - aim was suboptimal for much of this).

Is there a way of gauging one's level of physical fitness/strength against a rifle? Cooper had one but it was holding the rifle out with one hand for 60 seconds IN COMFORT - I don't think an M1A would meet that test for anybody, though.

For how long should one be able to aim offhand? How to train for this?

thanks,
Battler.

 

[madmike]

For match shooting, I rst my elbow on my ammo pouch and hold the weapon close.

bicep and shoulder exercises are what you want (and cardiovascular to reduce tremors and increase stability.

Curls and military press are good choices.
Anyone else?

 

[uglygun]

Grab your heaviest rifle and practice practice practice.



My squirrel rifle from hell is a 17 pound AR15, carrying it around is quite a pain in the butt until you try to take an offhand shot and then you really start puffing. I do tend to practice lots with it in the off chance that I need to take a shot from a standing position, I've nailed a few 80-100 yard squirrels while in a standing position but it's not a frequent thing.



Interestingly enough when I move to a lighter rifle I find myself longing for the heavy beast as I've got it all tweaked out for a very good fit and excellent balance.


I think those two things are very important, having the rifle fitted to your style of shooting and having it balanced well in your hands. Getting the thing balanced out properly could really help to minimize unneccesary muscle movement. I don't really have to muscle around my squirrel rifle all that much thanks to having it set up well, minor corrections can be made through breathing and all that good stuff that only comes with loads of practice, with practice you build additional strength.

 

[echo3mike]

Alot of Highpower shooters cram their suppport elbow into their hip when shooting off hand. That way, they build a bone bridge to support the rifle, and don't need to rely as much on muscle for support. Some books are available on the subject. Several can be found at http://www.sinclairintl.com

One way I've been thinking about is to add some weight to your comp rifle: maybe lead shot in a mag that is unserviceable. That way you can lock it into the weapon and make it heavier than it would be when you are on the firing line. Same concept as a doughnut in baseball. And of course, practice, practice, practice.


Hey madmike: doesn't resting your elbow on your ammo box count as support?

 

[Glamdring]

Couple of points: Offhand means your shooting without resting your weak arm on anything. Basically you would only use it for practice, for snap shots [ie not enough time to take a rest], or when you have to shoot over something to high to allow supported position [ie tall grass].

The Standing position is where you support your weak arm against hip/chest/belly. It is mainly used for shooting events.


On the bright side you shouldn't need to hold offhand position for very long in the field. Because if you have couple minutes to stay in offhand you could probably find a rest or better shooting posistion.

Remember to keep weak elbow directly below the rifle. And the strong elbow should point straight, to the right if right handed, away.

One simple exercise, practice bringing unloaded rifle to offhand position from a ready position. Don't try to hold it for minutes. Instead bring it up smoothly and dry fire it at a target. Then work the action and return it to ready position. Repeat.

A key to any type of strength exercise is to do reps and sets. A rep is one full motion of an exercise say going down and up for a push up would be one rep. A set is a number of reps without any real break. Say doing 10 pushups in a row would be one set of 10 reps.
This lets you work your muscles harder than simply trying to do a lot of reps in one set.

I would suggest doing 3 to 5 reps of bringing the rifle up to offhand position for each set [more reps for each set if that is to easy or when you get stronger] and do 3 to 6 sets. Do that 2 to 4 times a week for a few weeks and you would notice a difference. You would also be learning to get on target faster if you actually practice it by dryfiring at a target [this is basically practicing what Cooper calls Snap Shooting]. I would suggest starting with the rifle in whatever ready postion(s) you actually use with rifle on safe and practice working the safety as you mount the gun. Keeping the finger off trigger till on target.

 

[banjobart]

I do curls with 10 Lb. weights amd situps or tummy crunchers to get in shape for an offhand Silhouette match. This really helps a lot.

 

[Lefty]

FWIW, when I was very active in achery my offhand rifle shooting excelled !! I have found that shoulder and upper arm exercises are great -- but I'd also add squats or hack-squats [don't sit down all the way ... for those with bad knees] to that list of recommended exercises. One of the best books that goes into body positions and mechanics is "Competive Shooting" by a Russian author I can't spell, nevermind pronounce [the NRA sells the book at a discount].

As another tip -- when shooting a Garand in 200 yard offhand matches I would shoot a pellet rifle every night, then also dry fire the Garand too [with a snapcap] -- do this as if you were shooting the match.

Tight groups !!

 

[Unkel Gilbey]

For what it's worth, resting your elbow on anything other then your body is considered 'artificial support' and would get you disqualified from and High power match the NRA has the cog on. I would think that the same rules would apply to a silhouette match too.

Upper Arm, shoulder, and chest exercises would all benefit your O.H. shooting. Push-ups (close and normal width), curls, military press, are all good for this activiety. Pull ups are very good too. You don't need a gym to get all this exercise in either. You'd be surprised what you could get done in the house with the normal things lying around the house. For instance, how much does a gallon milk jug full of water weigh? Good for individual arm curls.

The remark about cardiovascular exercise is also good. Being an active duty Marine, I don't have to worry about getting the exercise - it's part of the job. But don't feel daunted by all the suggestions, you've got to start somewhere. Just set a goal for yourself, and make that your motivation for achieving it!

Good luck!

Unkel Gilbey

 

[Navy joe]

Full body, as stated the better your overall condition, the less tremors. I think something that has been neglected is lower back exercises, keep you from straining in the upright. For pistols I keep a 25lb dumbbell around, get a two hand gripand bring it from a low holster ready to punched out w/ locked elbows in both weaver and icosoles. Holding that out gets old in a hurry. I have been thinking about somehow cheaply dummying up an M-1A stock and weighting the hell out of the muzzle end for practice. Until then its off to the gym.

 

[ronin308]

Everyone's right: there's no substitute for good physical conditioning! But I don't think anyone has mentioned the lost art of the shooting sling. I've found it enhances my accuracy to a great degree and at the same time I've found I can hold the rifle up much longer with the sling. Wrap it up good and tight and you'll be surprised how much longer you can hold a heavy rifle.

 

[Stoner44mag]

I have found what works best for me is practice,practice and more practice. I've got an old 8mm Mauser (very heavy),as Glamdrig said,"weak elbow directly under rifle and strong(right) elbow to right. Group size continues to get smaller and stamina for holding that old war bird up has gotten better. It seems the only "exercise" I get is getting into the woods scouting game trails and shooting.

 

[scouter27]

8 lbs.

 

[A.Rex]

Right on with Ronin308, I'm a slinger too.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Nuther slinger. All of the above applicable.

 

[Spectre]

I have begun practicing while holding my PSS in the offhand. I only hold it for maybe 20 seconds- long enough to pantomime a slow, controlled sight picture and feathery release.

I also practice rapid shoulder mounts with my 12 ga and M1 Carbine. Sight picture, click. Sight picture, click. On these, I'm working much more on a rapid target aquisition, while with the PSS, I'm building muscle.

 

[vitiaz]

Lefty - The author's name is Yariv

Besides all the conditioning for arms, shoulders, torso and back...do not forget balance/natural point of aim. If you have to "muscle" the rifle into postion you're already hosed. The main factor in getting a good standing position is to have one where your skeleton does the work not your muscles. About the only other thing I can think of to add is the position of the support hand. Depending on how your body "fits" your rifle you may choose 1) make a fist 2) open hand with fingers forward 3) palm facing toward you and 4) palm facing away. Using #1 & #2 may not be suitable for an M1A(recoil). Using #3 or #4 you cradle the rifle in the "u" formed by you thumb & forefinger. To test natural point of aim...get a good sight picture, close your eyes, count to 4, re-open your eyes. If you still have a good sight picture...freeze that position. If not...either you've moved right or left, kept the front foot in position but adjust your back foot. If high or low, adjust the position of your support arm and/or adjust the amount of air in your lungs. And repeat for 20 shots...

More than my $0.02 worth...