Odd High Power

[Ibmikey]

I posted this on another forum but did not get any response, Gunbroker item # 571546298 depicts a High Power (or clone) that does not have Belgian proofs, does notch appear to have any information on the left side of very worn slide yet the right side has somrthing about Utah and Made in Belgium and is an external extractor model. It had enough interest for healthy bidding so apparently someone is seeing things I am not.
Any suggestions? FEG clone?

 

[Jim Watson]

That ad number brings up a screw for sale.

 

[Ibmikey]

Oops a screw? must have been the poor light put out by the flashlight because i am too cheap to turn on a light....anyway i changed the number....i thought the High Power buyer got a screw also.

 

[WVsig]

It is a mix master gun. Lower is an older internal framed BHP and the top end is an internal extractor most likely a late 1960s vintage due to the ring hammer. The gun has been run hard and put away wet. The buyer overpaid by about $200 IMHO. It has no collector value and you can buy good shooting surplus BHP for $300-$350 all day long.

 

[Ibmikey]

WV Did you look at the correct pistol? It sold for $325 h is too much, it has a external extractor slide with very unusual markings ....but the ring hammer frame does not have any Belgian proofs. With the crappy photos it is hard to see details clearly.

 

[T. O'Heir]

The screw made in Belgium? snicker.
Searching the Gunbroker number turns up a "pre-ban"(whatever that means) Nazi BHP in poor condition. Bit of pitting and in need of a bath. Doesn't appear to have the Nazi stamps though. No 'Made in Belgium' stamps on Nazi HP's.
Does have CAI St ALB stamped on it. That likely means it was cobbled together by Century's monkies with no QC. Imported by them if nothing else. Absolutely no collector value. Not much as a shooter either.
"...most likely a late 1960s vintage due to the ring hammer..." That hammer has nothing to do with the 1960's. Inglis BHP's have that hammer. All Inglis BHP's were made in 1944 and '45.

 

[Ibmikey]

I am relatively knowledgeable on HP's, I have prewar tangent, inglis, post war (1950), E series, Mk II and Mk III pistols..the right side stamping of the slide on the clunker is odd but what most intrigues me is the number of folks who bid on it must be seeing something I cannot. Probably stupid but the thing bugs me and i was hoping others would see what i am missing. Maybe i am trying to build a house without a piece of land to put it on.

 

[WVsig]

WV Did you look at the correct pistol? It sold for $325 h is too much, it has a external extractor slide with very unusual markings ....but the ring hammer frame does not have any Belgian proofs. With the crappy photos it is hard to see details clearly.

I looked at it. If you look at the serial number on the frame. Looks like a 5 digit serial number to me. This would make the gun a internal extractor pistol originally.

Then you look at the slide. It has an external extractor and a half moon sight. It seems to have Browning rollmarks but it is hard to tell and they look somewhat incomplete but the pistol has been polished or buffed so it is not out of the question that they have been removed.

I stand behind my guess that it is a mixmaster surplus gun from somewhere most likely the middle east, Israeli. Often when the older internal extractors broke on the older BHPs the armorers would replace the slide because the extractors were not always available and they had surplus slides that were. I have seen quiet a few of theses over the years.

"...most likely a late 1960s vintage due to the ring hammer..." That hammer has nothing to do with the 1960's. Inglis BHP's have that hammer. All Inglis BHP's were made in 1944 and '45.

Sorry but we are not talking about Inglis BHPs here. We are talking about a Browning with an external extractor. Browning rollmarked Hi Powers were imported imported into the US in the mid 50s but they had an internal extractor until 1964.

So if you add the pieces together, Browning not FN rollmark, external extractor, half moon front sight, small rear sight and yes the ring hammer which went away with the T series I would estimate that it is a 1960's pistol. The ring hammer was standard on the internal extractor pistols but it IMHO is a piece to the puzzle here but you are correct that would be consistent with earlier internal extractor models.

I however believe I am accurate as to the nature of this mix master pistol. I also believe that the buyer got suckered and in the end paid too much. At most is it a $100 parts gun. YMMV

 

[Ibmikey]

WV, Thanks for the comments, kind of the direction i was thinking, but in no way should it get eighteen bids and what happened to the Belgain proof marks? Even a Browning marked pistol would have Belgian proofs. Oh well maybe i can find something else to worry about for tomorrow.

 

[James K]

Right now, in a hut not far to the west of Peshawar, a little brown man is patting his home-made lathe and smiling as he recognizes his handiwork. He is very proud, and should be.

Jim

 

[jonnyc]

I would respectfully submit that there ain't no such animal as a $100 BHP. Easily twice that in parts alone. Might not be worth over $300, but it's probably still a good shooter.

 

[Ibmikey]

James k, How about a telephone number for that guy oI need to have a half dozen "genuine" 1911-a1's made for auctions!

 

[James K]

I doubt that gun was "made for" auctions; it was made as a gun. It probably got to these shores via some of our folks who have been (not always) welcome guests in South Central Asia at various times in the last 15-16 years.

In other words and IMHO, it is a copy of the BHP, probably made in the Khyber Pass area of Asia. When? 1945? Last month? Who knows?

Hi, Ibmikey, I have a coople of Webleys that never saw the foggy shores of England and a friend has a Mauser broomhandle with WAUSER on the side that was never near Oberndorf. Actually, those "Khyber Pass" (and elsewhere) Specials are interesting and would make a pretty interesting book in themselves.

Jim

 

[dogtown tom]

James K I doubt that gun was "made for" auctions; it was made as a gun. It probably got to these shores via some of our folks who have been (not always) welcome guests in South Central Asia at various times in the last 15-16 years.

In other words and IMHO, it is a copy of the BHP, probably made in the Khyber Pass area of Asia. When? 1945? Last month? Who knows?

Not a chance of that being a Khyber Pass gun.
It's a genuine FN frame and FN/Browning slide.
Even has CAI (Century) import marks which fully explains how it arrived on these shores.

It a parts gun plain and simple.

 

[Ibmikey]

Dogtown, i would like to agree but once again: 1. The odd and very unlike FN's normal markings on the right side of the slide including the word Utah in very large font. 2. Nothing marked on left side of slide where FN would have their information. 3. No Belgian proofs on the trigger guard but there is some other indistinguishable marking there. 4. The healthy bidding on what presumably is a slug. That kind of bidding Just does not make sense for a beater FN..

 

[James K]

Hi, Dogtown,

Maybe those markings were put on in Belgium, but they sure look odd under magnification.

(The CAI marking means only that it was imported by Century Arms International; it says nothing about the provenance or the legitimacy of the gun.)

Jim

 

[dogtown tom]

Ibmikey Dogtown, i would like to agree but once again: 1. The odd and very unlike FN's normal markings on the right side of the slide including the word Utah in very large font.

Not a thing unusual about the slide markings. I have several HP's with identical rollmarks.

2. Nothing marked on left side of slide where FN would have their information.

Not unusual and very common with Browning imported HP's.

3. No Belgian proofs on the trigger guard but there is some other indistinguishable marking there.

The photos are terrible to begin with. I wonder what marks are not shown.

4. The healthy bidding on what presumably is a slug.

"Healthy bidding" all the way to $325..........because it IS a slug.
BTW, there were only nine bidders

That kind of bidding Just does not make sense for a beater FN..

Actually it went for less than I thought it would.

James K.....The CAI marking means only that it was imported by Century Arms International; it says nothing about the provenance or the legitimacy of the gun....

I know that. I mentioned the import mark because of your comment:
It probably got to these shores via some of our folks who have been (not always) welcome guests in South Central Asia at various times in the last 15-16 years.

 

[Ibmikey]

Dogtown, please post a photo of a high power with the right hand slide markings and blank left hand slide just to satisfy my curiosity. Also nine bidders and 18 bids seems aggressive to me particularly when you can buy a neat high power from CDI for less than $100 more. Anyway it would be nice to see the markings whole and clear. Thanks

 

[dogtown tom]

There weren't eighteen separate bids....some of those were proxy bids.

 

[James K]

Everything may be as "right" as can be, but is anyone claiming that that gun is "LNIB"? At best it is beat to heck, rusted, and has had a lot of not very skilled labor put into it, including beating on the magazine. It is a clunker; it might work OK, but it is still a clunker.

Jim