Odd experience... parking lot ambush?

[Apple a Day]

I was at the gym last night. Since it was Monday there were hordes of people. Some jerk left a bunch of weights on a bench press so I cleared it, added my own weights and did a warm-up set. When I turned around for literally two seconds to grab some more weights some jerk jumps on my bench without asking and tries to take it over.
I let the guy know I was unhappy with him, that he was rude, and I used some rude language myself. He got up and moved.
As I walked out to the parking lot there was a truck sitting by the exit to the parking lot waiting. It is a fairly small parking lot. The guy turned out of the parking lot, did a U-turn, and then re-entered, pulled around behind me as I walked. I noticed the odd move and cut back and forth between cars so keep an eye on him and circled back to the building. The truck circled back to his original position and stopped, waiting.
At the entrance I turned back and purposefully looked at the truck. It was too dark to see who was inside but I looked straight at where the driver was. The truck left the parking lot and went across the road into the library parking lot and sat facing the gym with his headlights facing the entrance.
It may have been the same guy or somebody waiting for someone else. I don't know.
I walked back into the building and informed the staff that there was someone outside waiting, acting wierd. There is no security staff. I have a CCL but wasn't carrying. I will in the future.
I waited for a while, helped the staff straighten up a bit (I've been going there for years and they know me). The guy did a few more loops and ended up parking at the dark end of the gym parking lot. During one loop I walked up on the truck's blind spot and wrote down his license plate, made a copy for the gym staff.
Eventually the guy drove out. I walked outside and watched him drive completely away to make sure. On the way home I checked my rearview quite a bit.
1) Am I being paranoid?
2)Was it wise to get the guy's license plate number or should I have just stayed inside?
3) From now on I'm carrying to the gym. Who else carries to the gym and do you leave it in the car or lock it up in a locker?

Give me your two cents' worth.
Thanks,
Apple

 

[BillCA]

Apple,

I don't think caution is paranoia. A lot of guys who work out in gyms have excess testosterone and you may have bruised his ego. No sense in getting into a fight over his lack of manners.

The big question is, would you have done something different had you been armed? Serious self-examination. If you said no, congrats on making good decisions. If you say yes, examine your reasons.

As to carrying at the gym, think about the logistics. Even if you have ample locker space, how do you remove your gun and put it in the locker on a busy night? Someone seeing it may be tempted...or freak out over it. Remember that combo padlocks can be defeated simply in about 10 seconds. Most key locks can be picked just as fast. That would mean adding locking carry box, but that could also just "disappear" from your locker.

It might be better to secure it in the car and carry OC spray into the gym.

 

[Slugthrower]

What you did was very brave even if a bit foolish. I live in VA. on the south side. VA requires you to retreat from an aggressor. VA firearms laws are case law not statute law. By having perceived yourself to be in danger an first retreating back to the gym you were training in you were correct in your actions. By having gone back outside to the place of the perceived threat you became a potential "mutual" combatant, by VA code you would no longer have had the right to claim self defence. If you had your CCW and this incident had went wrong you may have found yourself facing murder or manslaughter charges and in the very least malicious wounding charges. Personally I think you did a fine job. Be aware that VA law is tricky and you must have your bases covered, especially if you carry a firearm.

Safe journey and God's will be with you brother Virginian.

 

[SeaMariner]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

 

[tlm225]

Here's another option: Call the police, describe the specifics of the suspicious activity and request that a patrol check the situation out. With what you've described there was sufficient cause for them to investigate the situation provided that you're willing to identify yourself. (anonymous complaints are a different matter). Their response time will vary depending on the call volume and priority of calls but it would probably beat having to wait him out or risk being followed home. Another plus is that your possible antagonist would be identified if there are problems in the future.

 

[claude783]

Tough one to call, was the guy really waiting for you, or was it someone keeping an eye on their significate other?

Go to the car, get in, and then see if the truck follows you. If it does drive to the nearest gas station which has cameras and purchase a couple of bucks worth of gas. The cameras should take down the truck license plate number and it shows that "someone" is following you. Next drive to the police station and go in and make a report...then go back and get the video tape of the creep!

If your armed, and he tries to take you at the gas station, everything will be recored, apologize like "h" and try to defuse the situation with wittnesses all around...if that doesn't work, well if you have a gun in the truck, you fall back on option B...

 

[OneBagNomad]

+1 on calling the police. Even if I was armed at the time, I'd much rather let them sort it out. No point in putting yourself in danger when the situation could probably be defused by the mere sight of a patrol car pulling up to the gym. You pay your taxes (I assume), I say put them to work when you need them.

 

[seed]

Uh...calling the cops would be jumping the gun. I mean stuff happens all the time and if you reported every last possible incident, that would be an over-reaction. As for carrying in the gym, well obviously you really can't do it if you work out really hard (I guess you could, but personally I wouldn't...perhaps something extremely small and light). So that leaves putting it in the locker. I would strongly advise against that...theft in the locker room is very common.

I would just chill a bit. The way you reacted was proper and adequate. You could mention to management what a prick he is, but I can guarantee you that they won't really care unless yours is one of many complaints from many different members.

That said, I could sit here all day and mention all the really obnoxious and rude things gym idiots do (I am a total gym rat and deal with idiots almost everyday). Almost always, they are lame, out of shape, clueless two-week warriors (they appear in the gym for two weeks and then disappear for two months...if not longer or even forever). They have absolutely no grasp on gym etiquette (sp) and just plain suck. Unfortunately, it's part of modern-day gym culture and is encountered almost everyday...especially during peak hours. You have to find a way of dealing with it without undue escalation.

 

[Tac1911]

jumping the gun?

Don't think this case would be jumping the gun to notify police. The vehicle was acting in a suspicious manner, which he described above. Sounds like probable cause for a stop to me. It may turn out to be nothing, but you'd be surprised how many suspicous vehicles turn into good arrests.

Besides better safe than beat down or dead.

 

[Samurai]

Rewind a bit, for me. No, I don't think it was unwise to write down the license plate. However, it WAS unwise to get rude with the guy just because he sat down on a weight bench. Did you HAVE to react that way? Would it have HURT you TOO much just to politely say, "Excuse me, but I wasn't finished with that weight bench..." You would have been the more reasonable and mature person. It MIGHT have even avoided the guy getting weird with you in the parking lot.

When you let him get to you, when you got all huffy with the guy, you became the instigator. You were provoking an incident with the guy by jumping in his face about it. If he reacted with hostility toward you, then ask yourself if you were being hostile to him as well?

Once the "fight" was started, you did the smart thing, behaving cautiously. But, it was a "fight" that might have been avoided altogether. Next time, be polite to people, and nine times out of ten, they will be polite in return.

 

[markj]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

First heard on WKRP

Why is everyone running scared? You did no wrong, he did no wrong (on weight bench) when someone grabs the bench I was on, I move to another and let it go. If someone follows you, head for a gas station or other public place, heck go thru a McDonalds and get a soda or something, then sit and finish it, if he isstill there go into the place and dial up 911. I wouldnt carry to the gym, no safe place to store weapons there. Smile and wave next time, people just cant stay mad at a guy smiling at him

 

[revjen45]

Start carrying pepper spray.

 

[junkpile]

Smile and wave next time, people just cant stay mad at a guy smiling at him

I've experienced the opposite. When people are angry and give me the finger or honk at me in traffic, I smile and wave, and they get so angry. People hate being angry when the person they're angry at is happy. Ask me, a good way to tick people off/escalate. Just my experience. (#1 way is to laugh. If angry people don't like happy targets of their anger, they hate being laughed at, makes them impotent).

For those reasons, I don't know that smiling and waving is that good an idea, but maybe I've just always done it in a way such that they get angry.

 

[JCaraker]

Sounds like you took the better route. I don't know if verbal judo would have helped at the bench but it never hurts to try. Some people are just wired to go off. As far as the parking lot, good call on breaking contact, getting as much info as SAFELY as possible, and reporting the activity to management. The only way I can think to carry in a gym environment would be a belly band under a sweatshirt with your ID and CCL in the band. If your gun is small enough(kel-tec, kahr, baby glock) and you're not doing cardio it should stay in one place for any exercise except those that focus on the abdomen and spinal erectors. Look at it this way, if you're grocery shopping you are lifting, bending, pulling, pushing, and walking. With just a slight modification to your carry style, the gym should be no problem.

 

[stephen426]

Please don't consider this a bash, but the best thing to do is not get into confrontations in the first place. I believe that we as CCW holders have an obligation to avoid trouble. Just because we can defend ourselves does not have to avoid trouble. Did you try telling the guy you were in between sets rather than telling him off? Maybe you could offer to spot while you rest and have him spot you. Even if he did not threaten you personally, he could follow you and vandalize your car the next time you are at the gym. Heck, a couple of slashed tires would put me out a few hundred bucks and waste a lot of my time. In Miami, a fair percentage of the population is armed. Latinos tend to be a bit on the hot blooded side and brawls sometimes turn into shoot outs. We have the worst road rage in the country too. The best thing is to not sweat the small stuff and avoid trouble like the plague. When trouble does rear its ugly head, act decisively and win!

If you are already in a situation like you were, your actions were pretty good. People are much less likely to do things when there are witnesses. If he sees you get into your car, he will know which car to vandalize though. Maybe just apologize for loosing your cool next time and make a new workout buddy.

 

[Apple a Day]

Slugthrower, I especially appreciate your comments about going back outside. At the time I thought it was important to get the guy's license plate number and I couldn't see it from inside because of the reflection from the windows. I'll have to think about that decision.

Wednesday night, didn't see the guy there. One of the managers did come up to me and ask me if I was involved in the incident. I said I was and explained what happened. About two minutes before he broached the subject I'd politely - as usual - asked if he'd finished with his weights so I could borrow them. I was straightforward and polite as I am 99.9% of the time when people aren't actively doing something to annoy me and he responded well, commented that I'd done the exact right thing by waiting the guy out.

The manager was concerned that his employees had no idea what to do in that sort of situation. He was surprised when I told him that I'd left a copy of the license plate number at the front desk, had kept a copy for myself, and would happily supply him with another copy. He was completely okay with my actions. I'm sure they are going to review protocols at the next staff meeting.

As for making the jerk my workout partner... no, thanks. Besides being a jerk he's nowhere near my league. He barely managed to put up 135 lbs a few times while my last set of 8 rep's is with 315.

I suppose I could have toned down my comments to him. I have to ignore annoying, rude jerks all the time... what's one more? My time at the gym is pretty much the only time I have for myself so I'm not going to waste it hanging around with jerks.

Thanks for all the comments from everybody. Cheers,
Apple

 

[rb4browns]

+1 to Samurai. Apple, IMHO you were in the wrong by escalating the situation when you responded with hostility. This has happened to me at my gym and I simply say, not meekly but not aggressively, "excuse me I am working on that bench." Generally the person apologizes and asks to work in. Many times people are in their own world, listening to music, etc. and don't realize they are being rude.

And if they are just being a**holes then the proper response is to let it be. I really hold that a gun owner's first responsibility is to avoid confrontation whenever possible - a gun is for a situation that would be avoidable by any other means, including swallowing your pride and walking away.

The most important question to be asking is not if you should be carrying in a gym - setting aside the idea that firing inside a crowded indoor space is damn well likely to hurt or kill an innocent bystander - but to ask was the situation avoidable in the first place. Clearly it was.

I really like these boards. Real world experiences and critiquing and learning from others helps keep me and my family safe. Apple I'm not trying to bash you at all, just offering my 2 cents worth.

 

[ShootemDown]

Do NOT put your CCW in a gym locker. it might get stolen

see if the desk got those wallet lockers in the front, those extra strong small ones, put your ccw in a plastic bag and in to that locker.

 

[Duxman]

I work out at a gym - right next to my work - it has zero lockers. So what I do - is carry a small backpack with me, and I keep within 2 feet of me while I am working out.

Since our gym is not large - 25x25 room with weights, some cardio and a cybex machine - it has fewer folks who work out there -typically 2-3. Sometimes I am all alone.

I keep my CC in the small pack,and have had zero issues so far.

 

[PJW001]

"The best thing is to not sweat the small stuff and avoid trouble like the plague. When trouble does rear its ugly head, act decisively and win!"

Very sage advice, IMHO as CCW's we need to think and behave more rational than the average joe.

Do not carry and lock your firearm in the gym..I am not sure of the stats but (based on what occurs in the tristate area here) locker theft is a huge issue that occurs very often.