Not quite fascism ... but, where are we now?

[Jeff Thomas]

The more I learn of the S&W settlement, and consider the implications, the more I wonder. As I consider the fight in AZ re: firearms preemption, and the incredible influence of governmental lobbyists, I wonder even more.

Fascism is a system where government strongly controls society, but does not need to technically 'own' the assets. Usually characterized as well by a dictatorial leader, nationalism, and often bigotry.

We're not fascistic, yet. But some of this is getting pretty spooky.

Consider carefully the true import of a public policy where governments tax our society, and then use some of that theft in order to hire attorneys to threaten otherwise law-abiding industry. And, with that massive hammer, they bludgeon industries, such as tobacco and firearms, into compliance with policy they couldn't pass through our democratically-elected Congress.

Consider also our experience in Arizona. I asked an important lobbyist about his experience in this procedure. He explained how, at least in Arizona, we have massive numbers of governmental lobbyists - he estimates 50% of our lobbyists work for cities, towns, state agencies, and even sheriff's departments. 50%!! So, again, governments tax us, take part of those proceeds and hire lobbyists, and then lobby for their own interests in another branch of government! Talk about incest.

So, I don't know what you call the U.S. now. A democratic republic? Not anymore, IMHO. Things have taken a dangerous turn in this country. And, for the life of me, I honestly don't know how we get it back on track.

Reform of our tort / civil justice system seems key, but the lawyers have successfully fought that for years. Outlawing governmental lobbyists also seems critical, but I'll bet that is a damn steep hill as well.

I honestly despair this evening.

 

[G. Kennedy]

I hear you loud and clear Jeff. Unless we see some massive changes via voting and electing pro 2nd Amend/individual rights people who will stand up and not cave in I think the only other viable solution is to do what they are doing....Litigate! Sue the politicians, sue someone who refused to sell a gun legally and someone dies as a result of it.

I share in your despair. S&W, a company whose majority of business (about 90% the last I knew) is in the civilian market, caves like this? What's next? This does not look good.........

 

[G-Freeman]

chapter 4 from Leon Trotsky's pamphlet
"FASCISM -- What It Is and How To Fight It"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AN AESOP FABLE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From _What Next? Vital Question for the
German Proletariat_, 1932


A cattle dealer once drove some bulls to the slaughterhouse. And the
butcher came night with his sharp knife.

"Let us close ranks and jack up this executioner on our horns,"
suggested one of the bulls.

"If you please, in what way is the butcher any worse than the
dealer who drove us hither with his cudgel?" replied the bulls,
who had received their political education in Manuilsky's
institute. [Trotsky means the Comintern.]

"But we shall be able to attend to the dealer as well afterwards!"

"Nothing doing," replied the bulls firm in their principles, to the
counselor. "You are trying, from the left, to shield our enemies
-- you are a social-butcher yourself."

And they refused to close ranks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
transcribed by zodiac@io.org

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited March 20, 2000).]

 

[sbryce]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We're not fascistic, yet. But some of this is getting pretty spooky.[/quote]

After reading some of the posts the last couple of days, I would have to disagree. We are a fascist nation. There is enough happening just this week to convince me that we are no longer under the rule of law, but under the rule of the whims of the ruling elite.

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Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked.
Nehemiah 4:17,18

 

[DC]

I agree with sbryce...we are under a fascist government. Somewhat benign at the moment but definitly increasingly fascistic.
1) More and more businesses are controlled by various regulatory agencies
2) More and more inocuous "offenses" are dealt with overwhelming deadly force by various gov't agencies (many of which technically do not have LEO status)
3) More and more violations of the law by gov't agencies and workers with no accountability nor punishment

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

 

[Shin-Tao]

This country is no longer a Republic, hasn't been for a while.
However, the degree of wealth redistribution and the levels of taxation, coupled with wellfare indicate we are in a Socialist state. This is further supported by the governments' anti-Nationalism. No Fascist State would bow to UN rule or stiffle Patriotism as our rulers do.
A Fascist regime seeks to legitimize it's controll by defending "established", "Traditional", "Middle Class" value systems.
A Socialist Government actualy seeks to obliterate the middle class, dividing the population into the rulers and the ruled.
Our Governments' desire for SupraNational governing and artificial culture, and economic medling, are reminisant of classic Socialist utopian dreaming.

 

[Jeff Thomas]

A friend tells me that even the ACLU has the same concerns these days. Unfortunately, they still don't get it about the RKBA.

I asked my wife this morning how we deal with this in the future. For example, is there a way to make money in the fascist US (ala Schindler ...), should I see how I look in a uniform, or perhaps foreign real estate is a good option? An overstatement, and said in 'jest' right now. But, the trend is quite spooky.

Got to dig out that copy of 'Ominous Parallels' ...

 

[Ray VanderLinden]

I agree that in the public forums it Federal Goverment acts more Communist, but in the area of comerace they seem Facist. But in fact what is the differance BOTH are socialism. The former is Global, the latter is National. Flip sides of the same coin.
Both remove freedom and add to the elite's power.
Both are a curse for freedom loving people everywhere.
As to what to do about it. Vote, Demonstrate, and keep you fire arms in good working order.

 

[Zeebrahed]

Slowly we are getting sucked down with the rest of society. Moral decay and personal responsibility (or lack thereof) will lead to our eventual collapse. The leftist establishment will pounce when we are weakest. It is incrementalism now, to be sure, but the end will be swift and sweeping.

Almost time to begin voting from the rooftops...

Yours in liberty,

Tom

 

[RMc]

I believe what we are seeing unfold in this country is neither socialism nor fascism in the classic sense, but the Third Way. It could also be called the corporate police state or even fascism with a smile.

Though the redistribution aspect of socialism is obviously in full effect here, the direct state ownership of the means of production required of true socialism, for the most part, is not. And classic fascism, which believes in social Darwinism, does not concern itself with welfare state redistribution. So I believe it's not accurate to call what we have socialism or fascism.

So how is control achieved? Even the most ardent socialists (at least the ones with brains) have come to the realization that state ownership is not only inefficient, but fatal. (Look at the Soviet Union.) So the trick is to achieve full social and economic control yet to leave in place the free market mechanisms that provide the innovations and efficiency to create wealth, and thus leave in place the illusion of freedom.

Tony Blair, one of the henchmen of this movement, once said something like, "Why own it when we can regulate it?"

That says it all. Laws, laws, and more laws. Laws against this, laws agains that. But play it smart and enact them incrementally so that the sheeple believe themselves to be free. And don't kill the golden goose of production.

Of course the endgoal remains the same: control.

 

[G-Freeman]

RMc, Very good analysis. How about economics?

 

[Jack 99]

It's called the "Politics of the Third Way." Go ahead and do a search for it. You'll have to read between the lines a bit, but basically its the marriage of big capital and big government. Its being touted by world leaders, mostly Rhodes Scholars, as the next great thing. Managed economies and "progressive" social programs are the meat of the plan.

Makes you want to puke.