Not-A-Poll: two simple choices

WESHOOT2

New member
One candidate offers everything I want, EXCEPT the candidate wishes (and may well be capable of) removing my right to keep AND bear arms.

The other candidate offers many things I most decidedly do NOT want, yet expresses the desire to increase the allowances of my right.

Who do YOU pick?

(I know who I pick)
 

hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
For me...
One wants NOTHING I want and may well be capable of affecting my 2A rights...
The other has a few things up his sleeve I may not agree with but the worst he wishes to do to my 2A rights is to remove the gunshow loophole (I prefer it left as is...) Most of my purchases are F2F...
I know who I am voting for...
Brent
 

fisherman66

New member
Nobody get where those two are without selling their soul to the interests of others who have agendas (read $$$).

I lump them all into the same group. A "R" or "D" is simply a distraction from the real show. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 

sholling

New member
I don't want anything for the government. Such "gifts" always come at a price. I'll take my rights thank you!
 

kennybs plbg

New member
#1 believes in "Novus Ordo Mundi", a good choice if your willing to leave your rights up to the U.N.. I'm surprised so many in this country are willing to do just that.

kenny b
 

Silver Bullet

New member
One wants NOTHING I want and may well be capable of affecting my 2A rights...
The other has a few things up his sleeve I may not agree with but the worst he wishes to do to my 2A rights is to remove the gunshow loophole (I prefer it left as is...) Most of my purchases are F2F...
I know who I am voting for...

I agree with this.
 

xrocket

New member
Status quo in a holding pattern could be better than a dangerous unknown wrapped in charisma an a veiled agenda.
 

Citizen Carrier

New member
Not a hard choice to make.

www.ontheissues.org

This website quantifies the policy positions and voting records/histories of the current candidates and graphs the results to determine where they fall in political ideology.

Below is Barack Obama's graphical history and where it places him.

s080_020.gif


Here's McCain's.

s020_070.gif



Sure, you can cherry pick McCain on immigration or free trade or playing kissy face with environmentalists, but the sum total of the man's history is certainly better than that of Obama.

One shudders to think the type of Supreme Court Justices Obama would appoint, considering he counts among his friends, mentors, and influences black liberation theology preachers, members of the Weather Underground, and similar unsavory charactors...
 

TheBluesMan

Moderator Emeritus
This poll doesn't make sense to me.

When are we ever going to be in a position to choose between only two candidates? :confused:
 
One candidate offers everything I want, EXCEPT the candidate wishes (and may well be capable of) removing my right to keep AND bear arms.
The other candidate offers many things I most decidedly do NOT want, yet expresses the desire to increase the allowances of my right.
Who do YOU pick?

Instead of beating around the bush and letting the white elephant mess on the living room rug, how about spelling out in English what the heck you're saying?

This website quantifies the policy positions and voting records/histories of the current candidates and graphs the results to determine where they fall in political ideology.

Sure it does...but by whose standards? The graph you pasted is about as accurate as using a 12 gauge shotgun at 500 yards.

I'd go with number 1 and hope the courts protect your RIGHTS

You mean the same courts that are legislating from the bench? The same courts that let out a serial rapist in 4 years yet sticks a small time nonviolent criminal in for 10? (Playing devil's advocate here)
 

Citizen Carrier

New member
Sure it does...but by whose standards? The graph you pasted is about as accurate as using a 12 gauge shotgun at 500 yards.

The website is very straightforward about the process of determining a plot on the graph. Still, one would have to look at it to determine the process they use.

For example, here is McCain's page from which that graph was gleaned.

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

They divide political issues into 24 categories. As you can see, gun control is one of those issues. Let's use that as an example.

Strongly Favors topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(+5 points on Economic scale)

That figure was derived from these positions taken on gun rights:

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership: Strongly Favors topic 10
Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes: Favors topic 10
Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types: Strongly Favors topic 10
Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks: Opposes topic 10
Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban: Strongly Favors topic 10
Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights: Favors topic 10
Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use: Strongly Favors topic 10
Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC: Strongly Favors topic 10
YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks: Strongly Favors topic 10
YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows: Favors topic 10
NO on background checks at gun shows: Strongly Favors topic 10
YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence: Strongly Favors topic 10
YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers: Strongly Favors topic 10

They assign the values based on this grading scale:

Strongly Favor = 2, Favor = 1, Neutral/Mixed = 0, Oppose = -1, Strongly Oppose = -2.

http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatc...a19=5&a20=5&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=23&e=70&t=4

Above is a more detailed explanation of their process.

Of course, a quicker, albeit less formal way to determine if their methods are indeed more accurate than a shotgun pattern at 500 yards would be to take a look at still another candidate (or candidates) and see if the graph passes the "stupid test".

For example, we all "know" that Ron Paul is basically libertarian in his political leanings. We don't really need to look at a graph for this. We know. So it should come as no suprise when we pull him up and see:

s070_080.gif


Nope. No surpises there. Pretty much as we'd expect him to look.

But apparently, McCain's is not where some people expect him to be. Most likely because they've picked 3 or 4 pet issues and determined that McCain wasn't as conservative as he should have been...and is therefore no better than Obama or Hillary.

Of course, that is a simplistic and ridiculous opinion. An issue by issue study of their votes (i.e. McCain voted to confirm Roberts and Alito, Hillary and Obama didn't) eventually tears down such simplistic political notions.

But some people are more comfortable painting with BIG paintbrushes....
 

Dustinthewind

New member
I tend to be Liberal on a lot of things, Conservative on others, but I vote for whoever is the strongest Second Amendment supporter as I feel that this is the only thing that guarantees that I have the freedom to be who I am.
 

Citizen Carrier

New member
I don't consider myself a single issue voter, but I do consider the 2nd Amendment the one issue any politician has to pass before I even start looking at whatever else they believe in.

The 2nd is an important issue, but not necessarily for the obvious reasons (i.e., I'm a gun owner).

A politician's stance on civilian gun ownership tells me what he thinks of me in general.

If he thinks I can't be trusted with the responsibility, then he is also likely to believe a lot of other similar things.

To disregad my individualism. To consider me a ward of the state. Somebody who must be looked after, kept from getting too far ahead of myself.

That sort of thing.

If he's anti-gun, he probably thinks I'm an idiot.

Can't vote for that.
 

HKuser

New member
The way I parse this is that one promises to give what is not his, and take what is already mine. The other doesn't. Easy choice.

One candidate offers everything I want, EXCEPT the candidate wishes (and may well be capable of) removing my right to keep AND bear arms.

The other candidate offers many things I most decidedly do NOT want, yet expresses the desire to increase the allowances of my right.

Who do YOU pick?

(I know who I pick)
 

Alleykat

Moderator
The only thing Obama's ever done worth mentioning is his excellent record at Harvard Law, assuming, of course, he really earned his way and wasn't "boosted" by affirmative action. He's not qualified to be in the U.S. Senate...certainly not qualified to be Prez of the U.S.
 

TexasFats

New member
While a lot of folks say that we shouldn't be "one-issue" voters, my feeling is that Obama's stance on civilian ownership of firearms is the canary in the mine. It tells me, along with some infamous remarks in San Francisco, that his basic attitude towards those of us who live here in flyover country is one of utter contempt--contempt for our values, for our hope, for our fears, for our rights, and for our lives. He would rather see us submit to criminal attack than to have the means of self-defense. That is enough for me. I will hold my nose, and I will vote for McCain. On the whole, I would rather have Bob Barr or Ron Paul, but, a vote for either of them will have the same effect as a vote for Obama, so McCain it is. I can live with his weaknesses better than I can live under Obama's contemptuous disdain for ordinary citizens.
 
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