non toxic shot in cartridge cases ???

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
looking for suggestions here...

we have chickens on the farm for personal use & sell a few eggs... bird flu has become an epidemic here in the Midwest... we purposely went "natural" for our hens, with a big outside run, with several trees over the top of the run...

the last couple years, we've had a lot of close nesting ( & robbing feed ) from common sparrows & starlings... well now that bird flu is running rampant, I'm looking for a way of reducing the numbers of birds nesting in the trees & sharing the feeders...

we have a lot of farm cats but seems the feed is enough of an attractant that I need to shoot some???

both problem bird species at small enough, that even a .410 seems like overkill, plus I don't want the hens gobbling up lead shot ( they often pick up rocks & grit for their gizzard...

this leaves me looking for suggestions...

I have a Contender that has a 44 Hot Shot barrel that was chambered to 444 Marlin, so I could load equivalent to 3" .410 from the brass 444 shells... I'd prefer not to load steel shot as the barrel is rifled & has a straightening choke on the end for the Hot Shot cartridges... I don't load much shot shells so I don't really have any experience looking for shot... anything out their ( like bismouth??? ) for the handloader???

or any other suggestions ... ( I did try some 38 Special shot caps out of a handgun... but that was lead shot, & out of a handgun I was not able to hit any of the pest birds... maybe out of my lever gun??? but again, I'd want to load something other than lead shot...
 
S

Snyper

New member
You could load capsules with most anything you like, but I think you'd be better off using a pellet rifle for the birds and a live trap for cats

Keep in mind many songbirds are Federally protected species
 
S

sawdustdad

New member
Yes, be careful of how you deal with birds. Where I used to work, some custodial staff removed a nest from over a doorway because the birds were pooping all over the door. Next thing we know the Feds are at the property and about to take the laborer and the site manager away in handcuffs. An upset employee squealed that the songbird nest (apparently with eggs in it) had been removed. Corporate lawyers intervened and a settlement was worked out that involved $$$$ donated to a conservancy fund.
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
Ok... yes I understand the song bird thing, & the cats we feed, they are not a problem... Common House Sparrows ( not wrens ) & Starlings... are probably not on a protected list, & even if they were, as paranoid as "everyone" including the government is, around here right now, about bird flu, it's likely not going to be an issue... there are chicken & turkey feed lots that it's wiping out 1000's of birds in just a couple days... we don't farm like that, ( we just keep about 20 hens ) & usually raise 20 - 40 meat birds through the summer...

we are as concerned about keeping the song birds, & because of the wild fruit bushes & such, we have quite a variety here... I'm only worried about the pest birds trying to cohabitate with the chickens

so for now... lets just deal with the non toxic shot thoughts :)

pellet gun is an option, though most pellets are still lead... BB's might be an option, though not as accurate to hit with... a shot cup would seem easier to shoot smaller birds with ???
 
T

T. O'Heir

New member
Birds nesting in the trees are likely song birds. Illegal in most places to shoot 'em. Sparrows are absolutely considered song birds.
Shooting a cat will likely get you sued by the owner too.
In any case, bismuth shot is readily available. Order it through your local gun shop.
 
S

Snyper

New member
pellet gun is an option, though most pellets are still lead.
Click to expand...
Pellets are large enough birds will likely leave them alone, and you won't be loosing hundreds of them per shot

You should also look into starling and sparrow traps
 
S

SHR970

New member
Bismuth.

It is soft like lead and is safe enough to ingest. The salicylate form is the active ingredient in Pepto Bismol.

Edit to add: Fr. Pg 25 of the Minn. hunting regs.: House sparrows, starlings, common pigeons, Eurasian collared dove, chukar, partridge, quail, other than northern bobwhite, and monk parakeets are unprotected and may be taken at any time.
 
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M

mxsailor803

New member
Kind of a random thought, how about rock salt? I doubt it would kill the cats but scare them off enough to never come back. Birds on the other hand, probably would kill them.
 
H

hartcreek

Moderator
Rock salt will work just fine. I load rock salt 12 gage hulls for an old guy and he uses them on pigeons inside his barn. If he misses the rocksalt does no damage to the barn. When he connects the cats dispose of the evidence.
 
S

Snyper

New member
Rock salt will work just fine
Click to expand...

If you can get within a few feet it might work, but it's too light to have much range, and worthless if the birds are among your chickens

The OP only mentioned cats as a way to control the birds, but to shoot one with rock salt would be considered "animal cruelty"

A trap near the feeder would be the most effective method
 
J

jughead2

New member
non-toxic shot

would like to see something that would scare a cat off and it stay gone. only thing that works for me is trap and take it in.
 
S

snuffy

New member
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/default.asp

^go there for non-toxic shot and reloading manuals for it. The best non-toxic alternative is hevi shot, but it's terribly expensive.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hevi-Shot/products/67/

As far as I know, bismuth is no longer made. It too was very expensive.

Then there's the ITX shot.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ITX-Shot-6-110-bag_7-lbs/productinfo/TX06/

154 bucks will get you 7 pounds of it.

BP also has any size steel pellets available. #7 steel, 10 pound bag, $18.79. You'll need special steel shot-cups, and load data.

Hope this helps.
 
S

SHR970

New member
Bismuth has been discontiued sine 07-08 due to an unfortunate passing of the owner of the company. But N.O.S. can still be found.

Tungsten , heavishot, steel, all require special wads and loading.

The components and loading do not lend themselves to use in a 444 Marlin.
 
S

SHR970

New member
If you have a 22 RF, then you can try CB caps from RWS....they are spendy($44 per 100) but they would do the job once you know their trajectory. They also don't carry much energy so collateral damage in reduced.
 
S

snuffy

New member
SHR970, CCI also makes .22 CB shorts and the same bullet and load in a long case. My dad and I used them for years to defend the martin house from starlings until the martins arrived. The range was about 100 feet from the house upstairs window to the martin house.

I never chronoed those loads, but they were plenty powerful, I would guess they were around 900 FPS for the 29 grain plain lead bullet. AND they were downright accurate, holding 1" easily at that distance. Plenty of dead starlings! Here's a source, out of stock of course.

http://www.natchezss.com/cci-22-conical-ball-long-short-rimfire-ammunition-56448.html
 
S

SHR970

New member
But J&G sales has the RWS CB and BB caps in stock. ;)

I try to recommend something that is available as this could be a time sensitive issue.
 
M

Magnum-

New member
Bird / Snake Loads

Well my suggestion is to load your own shotgun shells , or 44 / 45 long Colt pistol cases using # 7 & 1/2 Nickel Plated Shot . That's what I do for snake control when I'm on the river , or in the woods . You can use Any size shot you would like in your cases... I prefer 7 & 1/2 size shot in a 44 Cal. case for Several reasons

I could show you some great 44 magnum picture loads I make up , if this stupid site aloud me to up load pictures from my picture files .

If your interested" PM me and I can give you some how to load information . I have a good load recipe for 44 mag. cases . You can also use Copper plated Shot" , although Nickel plated shot Will penetrate a whole lot better on birds Or Snakes . Copper or Nickel shot will not lead up your firearm barrel , and safe for chickens / birds .
 
H

hartcreek

Moderator
I am currently using 21 grains of Red Dot in 2 3/4 inch 12 gage hulls of your choice. For a wad I use Winchester AA wads or equivalent and fill the shot cup with rocksalt.

You could drop the powder charge down to 19 grains even. I use a Lee Load All for all my 12 gage reloading.
 
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