Non +P 38 Special For SD Purpose

[1tfl]

I recently purchased a Colt Cobra 1969 production which my wife wants to carry for SD purpose in her purse.

We have been looking for some non +P 38 Special ammo for this revolver but have not been able to find anything that fits the bill. She wants a round that doesn't have too much recoil or muzzle blast. We currently have it loaded with the old Federal Nyclad Chief Special ammo but I only have a dozen rounds left and was told it is no longer in production. She fired 12 rounds of this ammo recently and it was about the meximum recoil and muzzle blast she could handle. Is there any other factory SD ammo which is similar to this Chief Special ammo?

From such short barrel I have my doubts about those hollow point expanding so I been thinking about loading some of my old "game" load for carry. This is the 141gr double ended wadcutter cast bullet loaded with enough Winchester 231 to get 800 fps from 4" model 66. It should get about 750 fps from the 2" Cobra. This load has always worked well for me for hunting small game/vermin and the effect of hit on the game was much more pronounced than the SWC or HP ammo. I think the large flat megplate of the bullet transfer the full energy to the target. Hopefully it will work well on two legged vermin too.

Any recommendations or comments would be appreciated.

 

[Laz]

Commercial loads that are out there that might fit your needs are the Federal 110 grain "personal defense" Hydrashok load and the Winchester 110 grain Silvertip. Both are standard pressure. Hornady makes three standard pressure loads, 125, 140, and 158 grain semi-jacketed hollowpoints. Speer lists a standard pressure Gold Dot (53722) on their law-enforcement website (www.le.atk.com) but I don't know how easy it is to come by. The Winchester has a reputation for expanding but it is light and not very speedy so if it expands well, it may not penetrate well. It does have a pretty good reputation, though. I think your wadcutter load is as good as any. I still have a pretty good supply of Nyclads but count on Federal 110s for reloads in the summer and 158 SWC standard pressure in winter. Oh yeah, Magtech also has a 158 SJHP in standard pressure (38E), spec'd at 807 fps from a 4 inch barrel versus the 755 fps from most standard 158 loads.

 

[kymasabe]

Magtech .38 short

Magtech makes a lead round nose .38 special "short" that is unbelievably light firing. Most (non +p) .38 special rounds have an average muzzle velocity in the 750-1000 FPS range and a muzzle energy/ft.-lbs. in the 200-250 range.
Remington make a great 147 grain wadcutter round that comes in at 710fps and 166 ft.-lbs, the Magtech that I'm talking about is 125 grain, 686 fps and 130 ft.-lbs. of energy. First time I fired one, I had to open and clear the gun and look down the barrel afterwards to make sure it wasn't a squib round. I buy them buy the box from SportsmansGuide for around $15 per box. My 11 year old daughter shoots my S&W model 36 snub with the shorts and is scary-accurate with them.

 

[BillCA]

Winchester catalogs the USA38SP 125gr JSP at 850fps and the X38WCPSV 158gr LSWC at 755 fps. Energy figures are about the same (200-201 ft lbs).

 

[1tfl]

My "problem" with lead round nose bullet is that they don't transfer the energy to the target very well. I've seen my share of rabbits run off after taking a hit from 38 Special lead round nose. Effect of SWC and JSP are a little better but not much.

My wife had fired some of my "game" load above and said it was comfortable enough to shoot about 50 rounds in one session.

 

[KyJim]

You might take a look at this:
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#standard38

 

[1tfl]

Tried two boxes of the Buffalo Bore non +P ammo few weeks ago and while the pressure may be non +P the recoil and muzzle blast is definitely in the +P range.

 

[cochise]

I have the same delemna. I chose Winchester 110 grn Silver Tips. My daughter can shoot them accurately, [me too ]

Little recoil, and shoots POA........[point of aim]

 

[1tfl]

Have you shot anything with flesh and bone with those Winchester 110gr Silver tip? Did it expand?
My experience with most JHP ammo from short barrel is that they don't expand when they hit flesh and bone. I've shot them in water and they almost always expand but in flesh and bone they don't. Also, with such light weight bullet how deep could they penetrate even when they don't expand?

 

[dispatcher]

My preference in a .38 snubbie is a .158 grain semi-wadcutter or flat point full metal jacket. This is not based on ballistic tests- just my thoughts that you probably can't rely on expansion from a 2" barrell, so go for mass and penetration. Another plus is that this is the round the revolver was designed around and it will probably shoot to point of aim.

 

[jrothWA]

Consider..

using the Hornady 140gr XTP, not +p butgood velocity from my 2"
use reloads with above to shoot bowling pins.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

1tfl
Deep enough.

 

[TWB]

I think you're on track with the wadcutter, based on your wife's preferences. The lead is soft, has the broad meplat you mentioned, and just might expand a little. Since you apparently reload, you can always load some 148gr HBWCs backward. You likely would get expansion at short ranges, but I've never tried this myself, so I can't say for sure. In any event, WCs are fine for low recoil and accuracy. Short bbls will always have flash and blast, though.
twb

 

[Z_Infidel]

Georgia Arms offers their 158 gr LSWCHP in both +P and non +P loads. I use their +P load in my 4" revolvers.

 

[pdawg_shooter]

Seams to me its not so much what you shoot as how well you shoot it. A 22RF in the eye is darn close to a 100% fight stopper!

 

[newerguy]

My preference in a .38 snubbie is a .158 grain semi-wadcutter or flat point full metal jacket. This is not based on ballistic tests- just my thoughts that you probably can't rely on expansion from a 2" barrell, so go for mass and penetration. Another plus is that this is the round the revolver was designed around and it will probably shoot to point of aim.

Ditto, except I haven't seen flat point FMJs. The heavy LSWC's are a good choice, because they penetrate as well as any other .38 bullet, even out of a snubby. I've also found 158 gr. LSWC, everything from Winchester down to Magtech or Mag-something reloads to be easy to shoot.

 

[wnycollector]

I was going to suggest the standard pressure loading from buffalobore, but it looks like it might be a little to much for your wife. I would go with the load that Laz mentioned...the magtech 158 SJHP. I really like magtech ammo, I carry the magtech +p 230gr JHP .45 ammo in my SIG P220.

 

[Silvanus]

I haven't seen flat point FMJs

Sellier & Bellot FMJs are flat. At least more than some other brands I've seen and considerably more than their 9mm FMJ for example.

edit: I just took a round out of the safe (haven't shot .38s for some time now) to take a look, they are definitely flat. I'll attach a (crappy) picture, so you can see for yourself.

 

[cocojo]

I carry a Colt Cobra 67 model and love the gun. I only shoot non +P ammo. Right now I use the Speer 125 53722 load and the Federal Nyclad 125 Chief load. I bought a box of 110 silvertips and they shoot nice in my gun. I haven't tested the expansion on these rounds yet, but they are all mild shooting. Right now I am attempting to load up some 135 Speer HP's with 4.5 grains of 231 Winchester powder at about 800 FPS. 4 grains is real mild with a 125 and 4.5 grains with the 135 is real accurate and not bad. I am going to check expansion very soon. The silvertip will expand in flesh but it falls a bit shot on penetration to about 8 to 10 inches if your holding to the FBI's 12 inch min standard. If you want deep penetration go with either the wadcutter of remington SWC standard velocity load. I personally don't want to use a reload for self defense, too risky in court.

 

[JED1177]

Winchester 110 grn Silvertip

Also find that they shoot about 2-3 inches low in ALL of my Airweights with 2 in barrels at 25 yrds.