No +P???

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Axion

New member
So I just picked up a new Walther P99 in 9mm (I'll make a post on that as soon as I hit the range with it) and I noticed in the manual that it specifically advised against using +P ammo. This isn't really a big problem for me because I bought a 9mm because I wanted something cheaper to shoot (hot loaded premium defense ammo ain't cheap) and I wanted something that kicked a little less then my .40 Sig for my girlfriend to learn on (once again don't need hot loads for that)..oh and I REALLY liked the P99 I rented:D But still it raises an interesting issue for me. In a lot of discussions comparing the 9mm to the .40s&w or the .357Sig people will say that "x" is not needed because the best and hottest 9mm loads can match their performance. So how many gun makers specifically advise against using that very top of the line +P and +P+ ammo in their weapons.
 
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HorseSoldier

New member
Lawyer proofing in the manual. I ran a lot of hot ammo through my P-99 before I sold it, never had any problems nor saw any indication of excessive wear, etc.
 
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Abstract

Moderator
Walther must have more cautious lawyers than the other manufacturers, eg., Glock, HK, Sig, who say that +p is fine. I'm guessing that the Walther isn't built to withstand +p pressures, contrary to some of its competitors. ;)
 
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Axion

New member
Walther must have more cautious lawyers than the other manufacturers, eg., Glock, HK, Sig, who say that +p is fine. I'm guessing that the Walther isn't built to withstand +p pressures, contrary to some of its competitors.
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So according to all of those manufacturers +P loads are ok? That's interesting.
 
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BobK

New member
Just bought an EAA Witness Match 9MM. The manual also says no +p ammo. However the gun can handle +p loads easily. I think it's warranty issue. I have seen people shoot a steady diet of +p ammo without changing the recoil spring a break a slide stop. It can happen to any auto.
 
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SeaMariner

New member
If the P99 is imported into the states, it must meet SAMI standards, as far as I know... but why on earth you'd want to shoot +p or +p+

+p should be fine...
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Cya

Some people's idea of +p an +p+ is hotter than SAAMI. Likely the manual warning is just CYA for the company.

My personal opinion has always been that you don't need +p, or +p+. If you need more than the standard loads, you don't need +, you need a bigger gun!
 
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Abstract

Moderator
My personal opinion has always been that you don't need +p, or +p+. If you need more than the standard loads, you don't need +, you need a bigger gun!
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I'm curious as to what empirical experience precipitated your forming this opinion?
 
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USMCG_HMX1

New member
Abstract,

The Baretta 92F/M9 cracked slide issue comes to mind. While I was in the Marines stationed in Okinawa in 1992, we had almost 800 weapons sitting in crates that couldn't be fired because of cracked slides from using NATO ball ammo, which is spec'ed at +P+.

I had to do a 3 month "armory custodian" duty while I was there, and you could squeeze the slides on several Baretta's and actually see the cracks on either side of the slide. What made it worse was I had to perform a "fam fire" (familiarization firing) with a Colt .45 that was twice as old as I was at the time and was in such poor shape that the only way to get consistent shots out of it was to give it a slight "Steven Seagal" tilt so the slide didn't move around as much while firing.


So I would have to agree .... if you need to run +P or +P+ ammo, you more than likely should step up in caliber.




Kris
 
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Abstract

Moderator
Beretta made some faulty pistols. I don't see how that has anything to do with whether we carry +p in our non-Beretta pistols. The implication in your initial response was that standard pressure ammo was all that was needed for s.d. purposes, and I'd just like to know how you came to that conclusion, if, indeed, that was the intended implication.
 
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AngusPodgorney

New member
Quote:
My personal opinion has always been that you don't need +p, or +p+. If you need more than the standard loads, you don't need +, you need a bigger gun!
I'm curious as to what empirical experience precipitated your forming this opinion?
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Actually, modern expanding bullets are designed to work best at certain speeds. You can find non +P ammo that works very well too. Why beat up your gun?
 
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dave0520

New member
Abstract said:
The implication in your initial response was that standard pressure ammo was all that was needed for s.d. purposes, and I'd just like to know how you came to that conclusion, if, indeed, that was the intended implication.
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I don't think he initially implied anything, as you just replied to his first repsone to the thread. ;)

I, however, agree that standard pressure ammo is all that is needed for self defense. Typically only about 30-50 FPS is gained at a 10%-15% increase in pressure in +P ammunition.

Also, whoever said that H&K approves the use of .45 Super in a pistol chambered for .45 ACP is surely mistaken. On page 21 of the H&K USP manual ( http://www.hk-usa.com/images/shared/usp_man.pdf ) it states,
The use of +P and +P+ ammunition does accelerate wear and reduce the service life of the component parts of any pistol, including the HK USP.
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Therefore, .45 Super is not approved at all, and on page 20 of the manual it specifically states that HK will not take reponsibility to damage or injury caused by using cartridges other than those which the pistol was originally chambered for.

I don't know where you got the idea that .45 Super is approved for use in a .45 ACP HK, but you need to check your source.
 
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Iceman12

New member
I don't think I ever saw that in my instruction manual, but I could of just missed it, or maybe it isn't in mine since my 99 is a S&W. I do know that I've put at least 1000 +P rounds though my sw99 and it has never had ANY issue. Actually, the majority of those rounds were Federal and Speer +P+ rounds. The Gold dots were strong enough that they were beating up my hands/arms and makeing me tired, so I didn't like them, but the gun thought they were just dandy. ;) I still have yet to see any kind of real wear, or any kind of malfunction out of my sw99.
 
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