No love for the Lee progressives?

[ScottRiqui]

I have a Lee single-stage and a Lee Classic Turret, and I think they deserve their good reputations. But reading the reviews on Midway's site and posts here, it seems that the Lee progressives don't have the same sterling reputation. Most of the love seems to go to the Hornady LnL or one of the the Dillons

Are the Lee progressives problematic, or are they just not the killer values that their single-stage and turret presses are?

 

[frumious]

I owned a Loadmaster for a little over a year and sold it. I now have an RCBS Pro2000. The Loadmaster IMHO just barely worked. The priming system often jammed up unless it was kept spotlessly clean and fairly full of primers. The case feeder in my situation worked better with the addition of a rubber band. And the auto-indexing sometimes didn't. Also when I first got my Loadmaster I had to get after it with some sandpaper and a file in order to make it run better.

Whether you consider it good or bad, the fact seems to be that if you don't want a press you have to fiddle with every hundred rounds or so (maybe even more often), then don't buy a Loadmaster. I cannot speak for the Lee Pro1000, except that the review on MidwayUSA's site indicate the Pro1000 kicks the LM in the arse. But I wouldn't buy one anyway.

-cls

 

[hodaka]

Years ago I had a Lee Progressive. I think it was a Pro 1000 or the predecessor. It worked okay when properly adjusted, it just seemed that I spend a lot of time adjusting it. I have upgraded to a Dillon 550B, and although not as automated, it loads ammo faster, especially when you account for the time wrenching on the Lee. I do like Lee dies and I load most of my ammo on an old Challenger press although I have other presses.

 

[l98ster]

If the Pro 1000 kicks the LM's ass, then the LM must be a royal piece of junk!! I had a pro 1000 and thank god I got rid of it!!

It does however have its place. If you can deal with all its qwirks, it is very cost effective. I shoot about 1200 rounds a month. The Lee is not good for that kind of volume. Not that it will "break", but the amount of time you have to spend with it to feed the primers, drop consistant powder charges, indexing issues, etc... it will take you a while to get that volume done.

I bought a Dillon 550b and never looked back. Well over 12000 rounds through the dillon and cannot remember a single issue.

For the record, I clean my machine (both the dillon and my previous pro 1000) EVERYTIME I was done reloading.

-George

 

[ScottRiqui]

If the Pro 1000 kicks the LM's ass, then the LM must be a royal piece of junk!!

That's what got me going on this whole train of thought. On Midway's site, each caliber of the Loadmaster has its own entry, and none of them has a rating higher than two stars. That's pretty resounding negative feedback - the worst I think I've seen for a class of product on Midway.

 

[frumious]

I think Lee makes a lot of good products. I like their dies (all 4 sets of dies I own are Lee) and I like their hand priming tool (I have two - one for large pistol and one for small). I hear nothing but good things about their turret and single-stage presses. They seem to have tons of little doo-dads that fill some niche or other. But their progressive presses aren't quite there.

What I think is interesting is that there is a big price gap between Lee and everybody else, when it comes to progressive presses. The Pro1000 in .45ACP is $143 at Midway, while the LM is $229. The next cheapest thing is the Hornady LnL at $406. The RCBS Pro2000 is $545 (or $489 if you don't mind manual index). But with Hornady and RCBS you need to add probably $60 more for shellplate and a die set - these come with either of the Lees.

I think Lee could easily make a better progressive and simply price it a little higher - maybe $300 or $350 (including shellplate and dies). That would still be less than everybody else. If the quality were there, it would sell great once folks heard about it and came to trust it.

Or maybe they've dug too deep a hole already with the progressives. Dunno.

-cls

 

[hans4811]

Don't listen to them, it's a great product...buy mine here.. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408501

 

[greco]

When I first bought a Dillon 550, I had to spend LOTS of tweaking the shell plate, primer system, nearly every component. It works just fine, lke I expected, but it is not exacly trouble free either. You have to be on the primer system all the time, and keep an eye on the powder all the time.

Also, if you buy spare primer tubes, and a case loading system, and spare dies and powder set ups, your talking some considerable added expenses.

 

[riverwalker76]

Don't listen to them, it's a great product...buy mine here.. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408501

Kind of speaking with a forked tongue.

You say it's great, but you are selling. Something doesn't add up.

 

[CowTowner]

I'm keeping my LoadMaster. I think it's a great product for the money.
Yes, I had to tinker with it a little bit. But once I got it adjusted the way it wanted to be, (Yes, I wrote that correctly) It works like a champ.
Some may not want to deal with any tweaking or fiddling with a press. Me, I enjoy tweaking my truck engine, my computers and my LoadMaster. If I took it out of the box and it just worked, I would feel a little cheated I guess.
But, I like to tinker. You may not and want the instant gratification.
Use what suits your budget, mindset and needs.

 

[McClintock]

My $0.02

I've loaded about 10,000 rounds of 9mm and a couple hundred rounds of .223 on a Lee Pro 1000, but I don't have any experience with the LoadMaster. Is the Pro 1000 an adjustment-free, trouble-free press? No, absolutely not. It's primer system is definitely finicky, as said in earlier posts, you need to keep it really clean. The press needed to be taken apart and cleaned about every 1000 rounds, so I got pretty good at taking it apart and putting it back together. The case feeder got to the point where it wouldn't keep the case tubes aligned with the hole to drop through onto the feeder to the shell plate (wore out?). The Pro 1000 is definitely not a fire-and-forget (pun intended) type of press. You do need to put some time and effort into keeping it clean and maintained, but it is capable of producing some decent quality ammunition.

That being said, the Pro 1000, for me at least, was a cost-effective progressive to learn on. Total investment for me was around $250 for both calibers, and it paid for itself with the first 1000 rounds I loaded on it.

If I hadn't found a smokin' deal on a used (but not abused ) Dillon 550b, I'd probably still be using the Pro 1000.

Hope that helps! If you have any questions you'd like to ask about my Lee experiences, feel free to PM me.

Cheers!
McClintock

 

[philbo]

I use 4 Lee progressives, 2 Pro 1000's and 2 Loadmasters, all purchased from shooters who swore these machines wouldn't work. These presses have subsequently churned out thousands and thousands of rounds with almost no issue of any kind. The biggest handicap facing Lee in my opinion is the poorly written setup instructions. This is offset with user videos that have made their way onto the net demonstrating the tweaks to get the presses up and going correctly, but for a new reloader or someone not especially mechanically inclined the Lees have a steep learning curve that is usually beyond many reloaders patience level. Lees low price attracts many new reloaders with dreams of turning out high volumes of ammo by just bolting the press to a shelf... and nothing is further from the truth with any press, regardless of name.

In short, Lees presses work when setup correctly, but getting them to that point is not easy. It's a catch-22 issue.... the low price attracts many new reloaders and this is exactly the group most likely to have serious issues getting the press to work correctly. Hence, a lot of unhappy people with Lee products... and people like me who have less invested in 4 progressives than a single Dillion or Hornady would cost and happily turning out ammo on the cheap.

 

[Jim243]

I think they take more work, you have 4 or 5 things happening all at the same time. So, yes more can go wrong if your not on it right away. Every time I think I am ready for a progressive press, I look at the cost of conponents and realize I don't want to spend the money for 5 thousand cases, bullets, primers and powder at the same time. While it may be cheaper on a per loaded round bases, it is a substantual outlay at one time at least for me.

For rifle, I would rather make them one at a time, so a RCBS rock chucker is just fine and I do not need anything faster. And for pistol, 100 or 150 rounds per hour is fine in my Lee Classic Turret press. So spending what it would cost for a progressive and the amount of time to set it up, makes no sense for the way I reload. But to each their own as to their choice.

Jim

 

[Kawabuggy]

I'm like Philbo-I like to tinker. I got a new Lee L/M and it runs like a champ. Of course initially I had problems getting it that way, and it did require some "redneck engineering", but in the end, I can pull the handle on my press as fast as I can load the bullets onto the case and get a completed round and it will do this until the case feeder runs out of shells, the primer storage gets low, or I run out of bullets or powder.. I can run 100 rounds through it in under 10 minutes now that I finally got it tuned. If that were sustainable, that would be 600 rounds in an hour. For re-filling the various things that need to be refilled, let's say 500 rounds an hour would be doable reliably. That's a lot of shooting.

Can someone else show me a progressive that can match that rate for $249??

 

[Krieger9]

Load Master

I love my Load Master but I haven't had anything else, so I'll bow out on comparison.

However if you have to fiddle with it every few hundred rounds then somethings is way out of whack. I've loaded several thousand rounds now and fiddle with it rarely.

I did have to spend about 3 secons of sanding on the primer chute to get it smoother, but after that I waste about 1 primer / 300 rounds or so now. Keep primers stacked > 5 until you use the last ones.

To avoid resetting the dies I spent ~ $15 on an additional holder for the dies.

So I don't know if others are better but these examples sound way off from my experience.

 

[markr]

I have found that all the "Problems" I had with Lee equipment were operator error. Some people have a pre-conceived notion about it, and at the first sign of difficulty, blame the equipment.

 

[ScottRiqui]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not a huge-volume reloader, so I'm willing to give the Pro 1000 a try just because it's so darn inexpensive compared to the alternatives.

One other question, though - with only three die stations, what do you do if you like to use the Final Crimp dies? I guess I could use my single-stage for the sizing/priming and use the progressive for the charge/seat/crimp steps? (or alternatively, I guess I could size & prime/charge/seat on the progressive and use the single-stage for the final crimp die.)

 

[Jumping Frog]

One other question, though - with only three die stations, what do you do if you like to use the Final Crimp dies?

The Pro-100 was designed to use a normal 3-die pistol set. Use your seating/crimping die the way it was designed to seat and crimp in the same step.

If you want to use the Lee FCD, then the Loadmaster offers 5 stations and you can do so.

As for me, I load about 10,000 rounds per year on my Loadmaster without any troubles. The last time I timed myself, I loaded 1000 rounds in 2 hours and 15 minutes, working at a normal relaxed pace. I visually inspected the powder level verified the primer seating in every round.

The post above that stated the instructions stink are accurate. I would not have purchased the Loadmaster, nor would I have been successful using it, without help on the learning curve at loadmastervideos.com. The Loadmaster does not require all the tinkering that people complain about if it gets setup correctly to start with and you get to know the press so you know how to recognize a problem.

FWIW, I am not loading 9mm, 40 S&W, .44 mag, and .45 ACP on the Loadmaster. Each caliber has its own dedicated shellplate and turret with a 5 die set (I use both the FCD and the universal decapping die).

My costs for all 4 calibers is still well under $400. If you are considering Hornady or Dillon, be sure you price out the cost of adding additional calibers before you make a purchase decision because it is surprisingly high.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[frumious]

Personally I'd do the first operation (or two) somewhere else, not the last. The press's weakest spot is probably the priming system. Consider that and check this out.

I don't know if it is possible on the Pro1000, but the best luck I had with the Loadmaster was decapping and priming off-press and then doing the rest on the press. Well, I say "off-press"...what I actually did was I had two toolheads for each caliber - one head had just the caliber-specific decapping die in it, the other head had the rest of the dies. I'd take a couple hundred cases and run them through the LM and decap them all. Then I'd prime all the cases with the Lee hand priming tool. Then I'd run all the cases through the LM again (using the other toolhead) and flare, powder-charge, bullet-seat, and factory-crimp. This worked pretty well but I got to handle each case 3 times, which sucked.

A better way would have been to get a Classic Cast single stage and run all the cases through that first, using a universal decapper. I'd also go ahead and prime on the Classic Cast. Then I'd run all the cases through the LM to flare, powder-charge, bullet-seat, and factory-crimp. This would mean only handling each case twice.

Anyway, like I said, I don't know if the Pro1000 would support this kind of strategy. But if it did, then the 3-station setup would still let you factory-crimp. Just a thought.

-cls

 

[Krieger9]

Primer problem

I forgot to add that to get the primer's steady I changed my resizing to station 2 with the primer and just deprime in the first station.

I'm not sure if it's experience, sanding or the die that fixed the issue but supposedly the extra die holding the case down and firm makes it much more consistent.

The videos suggestion above was really the way to go for me. Once you see it done and take the time to understand the components, things seem to go very smooth.