No 5-Shot .45acp Revolver Market?

[amprecon]

I find it hard to believe there isn't enough of a market out there for a reputable gun manufacturer to not make a 5-shot 3, 4 or 5" bbl revolver in .45acp.
I know Taurus had one out for a short while the 455(?). I don't believe I've ever seen one like that from S&W though or any other "quality" gun-maker.
What's the deal?

 

[Technosavant]

Just doesn't seem to be the outcry for them. There is barely enough market for the 6 shot .45ACP revolvers.

IMO, it probably has to do with a combination of factors. The .45ACP, while potent, is not more so than a .357mag, .41mag, or .44spl or mag. Going from a .357 to a .45ACP means you're giving up one or two rounds worth of capacity. Sticking with the big bores, you have a gun that's no smaller than a .44mag with no more capacity but with a lot less punch (or if recoil is an issue, .44spl works great as well).

True, a .45 with moons reloads nice and fast, and a revolver frame with a shorter window to match the size of the .45ACP would be nice, I just don't see any maker going out of their way to service a market that small.

I am a fan of the .45ACP and a 625 is on my list of guns to get, but I just don't see a .45ACP revolver doing what can't be done with the other offerings on the market, and that cuts down the customer base enough for manufacturers to not pay much attention to it.

 

[bigghoss]

^ all true. but I still really want a 5-shot snub in .45 acp and .45 colt. I wouldn't mind a .41 magnum or 10mm either.

 

[ohen cepel]

Best option is to search out the old Tauruses or maybe go with a custom. Maybe rebarrel a Ruger SP? Will be pricey though!

I'm not enough of a .45 lover to go that route.

 

[Tom Servo]

The trouble is the diameter of the cartridge and the size of the cylinder. If I were to take a cylinder from a medium-frame revolver and bore out the chambers to accommodate it, the walls would be dangerously thin.

 

[amprecon]

My reason for searching one out is that my auto-loader is a Glock 21, I have a S&W Model 10, but would like the ammo compatability with the G21.
And moon clips are fast and cool

 

[carguychris]

+1 Tom. One thing to note is that S&W has sold several 5-shot .44Spl guns on the "medium-large" L frame: the Model 696 (stainless frame), the Model 396 (scandium alloy frame), and the Model 296 (scandium frame with concealed hammer).

Four observations:

1. These are fairly big guns- larger than most people can easily carry without a generous cover garment such as a suit jacket.
2. Despite the large size, the cylinder walls are very thin. I suspect that the only reason it worked at all is that .44Spl has a very low operating pressure (15k psi IIRC). .45ACP would require an even bigger cylinder.
3. The same-size gun can hold 7rds of .357Mag, making it easier to justify carrying something so big.
4. None of these guns have sold well and none are currently cataloged.

My suspicion? The bottom line is that most buyers, when given a choice, don't want a gun that holds only 5rds. They can justify it with a .38Spl pocket revolver because they're so easy to carry. It's harder to justify with a gun that's full-size.

 

[RickB]

There is barely enough market for the 6 shot .45ACP revolvers.

Hmmm. I shoot a lot of competition, and I think in the practical shooting sports, more people are shooting 6-shot .45 ACP revos than all other types/calibers combined. I think a 5-shot, L frame, .45 snubby would be pretty cool. I''d certainly have more interest in that than in the railed 325 that came out a while ago.

 

[MrAcheson]

Hmmm. I shoot a lot of competition, and I think in the practical shooting sports, more people are shooting 6-shot .45 ACP revos than all other types/calibers combined.

And that's the only place they're shooting them. .45 acp revolvers let you make major (or the power floor or whatever) and have faster reloads than .38 and .357 due to the shorter cartridge length. Some people have even experimented with running .45 gap through the .45 acp revolvers for a tiny speed boost. If it were legal to run higher pressure loadings in a shorter .38 case like .38 colt, a lot of the .45 revolvers would vanish overnight.

 

[RickB]

So, like any other product, the .45 ACP fills a niche in the market, and as long as that niche remains, people will be buying. It's like saying gas-powered cars are popular only with people who drive, and when electrics are as cheap to buy and cheap to operate, the gas-powered car will decline in popularity; of course it's true, but don't hold your breath!

 

[old bear]

I think a 5-shot, L frame, .45 snubby would be pretty cool.

I think you may be right, but keep in mind that handgun Manufactures don’t sell cool they sell products that will allow them to make a profit.

 

[thinkingman]

I have a Taurus Ti Tracker in 45acp.
Reasons being...I shoot a lot of 45acp and reloading for it is pretty easy.
components, brass, powder is always easy to find.
I also like the idea of simplifying my cartridge inventory.
I am in the process of shopping for a 9mm carbine and would buy a 38/357 lever if the right deal dropped into my lap.
Would much rather shoot 45ACP out of a K-frame 24oz gun than 44mag or even 357mag.
I think it makes a lot of sense for my purpose.
BTW, this is an open-carry hiking piece, not CC.

 

[CWKahrFan]

Looking at the numbers, to me, what .44 Special ALREADY IS... is... basically... ".45 acp for revolvers"... Now, should we have more choices for .44 Special snub revolvers?... (Considering that I really like my 5-shot Charter Arms Bulldog A LOT...)... Yes we should.

 

[RickB]

Can I get a moonclip conversion for that Bulldog?

 

[CWKahrFan]

Here's an interesting excerpt from Wikipedia w/link... (I don't know anything more):

"Also in 2008, Charter Arms announced a new revolver: the Charter Arms Rimless Revolver. The new revolver would be able to load and fire rimless cartridges such as the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP without the need for moon clips. Initially, the revolver was to ship in early spring, however, reported problems with the patents delayed the introduction.[4] Charter Arms set a release date of April 2009 for the CARR. However, Charter Arms missed this deadline, and company representatives have suggested the release date may not be until "late July" of 2009. As of May 12, 2010 their website still states that the CARR will be released in "early 2010", but it is not listed under their "products" listing; neither is any information on the CARR available."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Arms

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/11/20/new-charter-arms-rimless-revolver-carr/

 

[RickB]

"Without the need for moonclips"? I like the idea that a revo chambered in a rimless cartridge can fire without a clip if necessary, but setting up the gun to use rimless rounds without a clip is sort of a backwards step; like an auto pistol that loads with stripper clips, so that there's no need for a separate magazine?

 

[bigghoss]

I don't get why people go all ga-ga for snubbys that don't take moon clips.

whenever those CARRs com out I'll be giving them serious consideration but I'd rather they used moon clips.

 

[Mike_Fontenot]

I think there WOULD be a big advantage to it. Moon clips are fast, and the short case allows a longer barrel for the same overall length. The speed of the moon clips might even make a 4-shot .45acp revolver possible in a scandium/titanium J-frame package.

 

[Bart Noir]

I have one of those Taurus Model 455 snubbies, which uses the same frame as they used for .44 Special and .45 Colt (rare, I have never seen one) snubbies.

I am disappointed that it will not work with 45 Auto Rim rounds. There is almost enough room between the cylinder and the recoil shield. Almost.

It is because the Taurus clips are just a little thinner than the traditional S&W clips, which are what the Auto Rim was designed to replace. Oh well, I like the short barrel big bore guns.

Bart Noir

 

[pendennis]

I own several...

...snubbies in large calibers. I have two which I alternate for concealed carry. The first is a S&W 325 Nightguard. That large, alloyed N frame is easily carried, and I like the idea that I have six rounds available, and it's very much easier to unload/reload than a rimmed cartridge gun.

That written, my favorite carry wheel gun is a Model 696. While it's a five-shot revolver, it's not overly heavy, and the 3 inch barrel balances the revolver nicely. I carry two speed loaders, and I figure fifteen rounds is enough.

Smith discontinued the 696 in 1992, and hasn't produced another since. As others have mentioned, there just isn't a market. They do make a Model 296 Nightguard, so a concealable .44 special is available.

The market in handguns points to semi-autos, especially in the 9mm (parabellum and .380) size. Hi-Cap is a big seller.

Remember also, that a five-shot .45ACP requires different moon clips eek, different machining set up for the revolver, and most of all, evidence that a variation of existing revolvers (325, 296, etc.) would be successful in the market.