Nickle Plated vs Regular Brass: Internal Case Dimensions

[Jay24bal]

I have a question about a scenario I have never considered until now.

I have 200 rounds of Winchester PDX ammo on the way for a new rifle. I did not set out to use this ammo, but I came upon a deal that was too good to pass up, so I picked it up. Obviously, after firing it, I will be left with 200 pieces of brass to begin load workups for the new gun.

The problem is that this ammo has nickle plated brass. As far as I can tell, Winchester does not sell their nickle plated brass in 308, you can only get it from firing PDX ammo (if anyone knows where I can find, I am all ears).

I generally like to have at least 300 pieces of brass on hand for each rifle as I sort them by weight and each 5 shot group I fire is the same exact case weight. In my experience, out of those 300 cases, I will end up with 20 groups of 5 that weigh the same to have 100 rounds of precision ammo on hand.

So, in an attempt to avoid buying more PDX ammo which normally retails for $40/box, would the internal case dimensions of Winchester's nickle plated brass be any different from their regular brass cases? I do not have any regular brass cases from Winchester in 308 on hand to compare the two.

I am beginning to regret the purchase, even at the deal I got...

Thanks.

 

[burrhead]

The inside of the cases isn't nickeled. That said, if I were worried that much about precision I'd use Lapua palma brass.

 

[Jay24bal]

The inside of the cases isn't nickeled

I knew this, but wanted to make sure I was not making assumptions as I have had all kinds of crazy thoughts on the subject and my brain is fried at the end of the day.

Also, how much weight do you guys think that the nickel plating adds to cases? The reason I ask is let's say I have a nickel plated piece of brass and a regular brass piece that weigh the same. Would this mean the nickel plated one is slightly longer? When trimming, let's say I did not trim one perfectly or one was under the length my trimmer was set for and I end up with this scenario. If this is the case, well then the internal dimensions are technically no longer the same since one is longer.

I realize I am talking about hundredths of inches here and it probably does not matter for all practical purposes, I just like to think these things through.

 

[burrhead]

You're sorting them anyway, just keep the plated separated from the non-plated. You're really over thinking this.

 

[Jim243]

I am not sure that I would use the nickle cases for reloading except maybe once. The nickle case has less give than a pure brass case. When I buy a new caliber rifle I order 500 cases for it (all brass).

I do load nickle cases but for 45 ACP only. You will receive less use from a nickle case than you will from a brass case because it is work hardened faster than standard brass. You are more likely to get split case necks with the nickle cases being reloaded more than one or two times. Since I use my rifle cases 5 to 7 times each, nickle would be a case type I would not use on a regular basis.

That's just my view on it.
Jim

 

[math teacher]

Technically since nickle is plated over a regular case, after resizing the case would have less capacity, though minutely so. Like burrhead, I suspect you are over thinking this. Follow his suggestion.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I agree with Burrhead.

If you are going to the trouble to weigh cases and control for variation in case volume, ignoring the variable of case composition (brass vs nickle-plated brass) introduces a MAJOR unknown.

To answer your first question: Fill your cases with water and measure the weight of the water. At 4 degrees Celcius, 1 cc of distilled water is 1 gram. So, you find the internal volume that way. Mixing nickled vs straight brass kind of blows all your care and precision away though.

Good luck

Lost Sheep

 

[steveno]

every nickel plated case I have ever seen has plated inside and out just because of the process involved. since plating is at most .0001 or less thick any possible difference is cosmetic only

 

[Bart B.]

If one's concerned about the thickness of plating on cases effecting a load, then surely they've made adjustments for the friction coefficient of bullet to barrel, with and without powder and primer and previous bullet jacket fouling. Plus the flash hole diameter which will effect the flame properties of the primer going inside the case to start the powder burning. And measured the bullet's release force needed to move it out of the case so powder charges can be adjusted for that variable.

What about the moisture content of the powder that'll effect its burning properties? How are you going to account for that variable? What about the small differences in the explosive components in primers; do you measure them?

Do you know that nickel plated bottleneck case shoulder's will set back more from firing pin impact than plain brass ones when the firing pin drives them hard into the chamber shoulder? Such cases have more head clearance when fired than the same size brass ones.

Note that measuring case volume by weighing the water it holds will vary across a batch of cases all the same weight but different amounts of out of round characteristics of the case body. The more oval shaped the case is, the less water it will hold.

 

[William T. Watts]

Personally I do not use nickle at all nor would I recommend them!

Nickle will flake and could scratch your resizing die, RCBS has already replaced one of my resizing dies. RCBS further cautioned me about the use of nickle plated cases and "would not replace another resizing die if it were damaged with a nickle case. They (the nickle) look pretty but I throw them in my recycle bin if I pick any up at the local range. The oldest set of RCBS dies I have is dated 1977/308 & 270Win, 1980/30/30 ,1986 257Roberts, they will last for a long time if properly cared for! William

 

[mikld]

Nickel plating is a somewhat controversial subject. I have never had a problem with nickel plated handgun brass. It "reportedly" has a shorter reloading life, but I have reloaded some cases so many times the nickel is worn through in spots. Some say nickel plating flakes off the case. I have several hundred .38 Special cases and perhaps 200 .357 Magnum cases from my brass scrounging and have not seen one that flaked. Some say nickel plating is hard on dies, but I have not nor have I heard of anyone wearing out sizing dies from nickel cases. Some may make a distinction between rifle and pistol brass, but I have only reloaded 30-06 nickel plated brass a very few time and have no first hand data, but I can't see where any difference would occur because of case shape.

I know how material is electro plated and wonder how the interior of a case can be bare when the outside is plated. And the thickness of a good nickel plating is merely a few thousandths of an inch thick, so the reduction in case volume prolly is too small to measure, and too little to make any difference to a reloader.

If I had those cases, I would reload them just like any other cases and be satisfied that my results are a result of my reloading skills and not a few thousandths of an inch of nickel (they are much easier to clean too).

Or you could get 10 regular cases and ten nickel cases and load them exactly the same, the exact same number of times, shoot them on the same day, and record the life and accuracy then compare the two...

 

[leefan]

Only downside I see to nickel plated cases is that they tarnish in a sonic wash, so I just tumble mine. No problems so far reloading them, knock wood.

 

[snuffy]

The inside of the cases isn't nickeled. That said, if I were worried that much about precision I'd use Lapua palma brass.

Wrong! Inside and out is "coated" with nickel.

When nickel plating was first done on BRASS cases, it was electroplated. The ends of the cases were plugged, just the outside was plated. The plating was fairly thick, several thousandths.

Modern nickel is electroless COATED.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroless_nickel_plating

From the wiki link above^"Electroless nickel plating is an auto-catalytic reaction used to deposit a coating of nickel on a substrate. Unlike electroplating, it is not necessary to pass an electric current through the solution to form a deposit. This plating technique is to prevent corrosion and wear. EN techniques can also be used to manufacture composite coatings by suspending powder in the bath. The general division of EN coatings is shown in Fig. 1.[1] Electroless nickel plating has several advantages versus electroplating. Free from flux-density and power supply issues, it provides an even deposit regardless of workpiece geometry, and with the proper pre-plate catalyst, can deposit on non-conductive surfaces."

This coating is very thin, less than .001, (one thousandths). It is also no where near hard enough to scratch a steel die. It should not affect the internal capacity of a case. But those cases could certainly have less capacity than plain brass cases. Just the same as another lot number or another years run of cases.

 

[Slamfire]

I purchased 500 new R-P nickeled cases in 308 Win. I weighed a bunch and the weight was quite uniform, around 168 grains a case. LC cases are about 175 grains.

Loaded 100 and fired five yesterday for chronograph testing. Those that I fired the case neck had snagged the bullet and buckled a rim section. Accuracy was awful and I really don’t know why unless the buckling did something.

Sized the brass today; no problems in my small base die. The stuff does not trim well, seems to be much harder to trim than plain brass cases. I am having to go to extreme measures (Dillion grinding bit) to remove burrs on the inside bevel as I had too much jacket shaving and even neck buckling.

I don’t know if I want to use the stuff in an upcoming 1000 yard match, I would like to try them in a midrange match first, but the LR match is first on the schedule.