Newbie seeking answers

[Ding]

Hi, long time reader, first time poster.

First, let me get in a word about myself. I'm 16, live in Salt Lake City, UT, and go to Westminster College as a freshman. Neither of my parents owns, or even likes guns, but luckily they've been very supportive. I've never as much as held a real gun before, and all the information I have came from reading sites like TFL.
Well, I've been looking into getting my first gun for some time now. While doing some research, I stumbled upon TFL and read it pretty much every day since. So, anyway, how should I approach guns without embarrassing myself/killing anyone? Should I take some beginner courses at a range first? I did some shooting with a .177 target pistol (not a real handgun, but looks and works somewhat like one) and I learned a thing or two about safety. Now, whenever I pick it up, my finger goes to the side of the gun body, not the trigger. But aside from that, I don't even know how to check if the chamber is empty with a real gun (take out the mag, pull the slide back twice, if < 2 shells fall out, you're fine, right?). Maybe some of you can recommend some newbie guides online so I can do some more reading before making the trip down to the range. Speaking of that, can any of you local TFLers recommend a range around here? Can any of you non-local TFLers recommend a way of finding one?
Now, about the gun itself. I don't want a .22 for financial reasons (I know I'll HAVE to buy a 9mm later, and I can't afford 2 guns yet), even though it might be cheaper in the long run. I don't want a revolver because of 1) increased kick, and 2) the simplicity. I'm a fast learner, and would much rather start with a complicated semi-auto. I don't want a .40 since the ammo will eventually burn a hole in my pocket, and I don't want a .45 for obvious reasons. Now, I may not have much money, but I am willing to pay a little (or a little more) extra to get a quality gun. The guns I'm currently considering are the Glock 17 (19, maybe), the HK USP9, and the Beretta 92FS. The size of the gun doesn't really matter to me, since I won't carry it and I don't have particularly small hands for a guy my age. Should I just find a shooting range that'll let me rent them? Which one would be best to try first?
If I forgot to ask any typical newbie questions, please ask (and answer) them for me. Thanks.

 

[John Grey]

Go to a local gunstore, find out who has an NRA certified instructor. Get your dad to take the course with you since you cant take it at 16 by yourself. Lastly, by a good 4" .357 REVOLVER, load it with .38 Special and learn to shoot it well and respect it. Who ever told you revolvers kick more than autos is talking out of his southern orafice.
Once you get good with the .38, then go buy a wonder-nine or whatever.

 

[craigz]

Here's a list of clubs and ranges in Utah:
http://www.upms.org/utguide.html

Your best bet is to find a range that rents the guns you're interested in, and that might be able to hook you up with a trainer.

You might also want to check out a multimedia CD-ROM called Safety On (www.safetyon.com), which covers basic pistol operations and safety procedures.

 

[blades67]

Ding,

Take an NRA Hunter Safety course. You will learn everything you want to know about gun safety and more. You can take the course by yourself, or with a friend (which I did when I was 13, many many years ago) so long as your parents give their permission.

Also, buy whatever 9mm you can afford (I presume your parents will purchase the gun for you as you state you are 16), but buy a quality firearm. Used guns are a great way to get a high quality gun more affordably. And make a point of practicing at least twice a month.

------------------
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.

 

[The Mohican Sneak]

First off, welcome to TFL!

The others have given sage advice. I'd like to add to it by saying, ask around. Do any of your buddies or their parents own handguns? If so, would they take you shooting? Any of your relatives own a handgun?

Like the previous ones have stated, go to a gun range, try out new guns, "feel" them, be sure they are unloaded, and aim them, before you buy a gun, be sure "it's you", and that it's comfortable to hold, point, aim, rack, etc...

I don't see you going wrong with a Glock. I've owned two and loved them both. I had the 19 and the 26.

As for not wanting to go with a .45acp, I'm partial to that round - I wouldn't take anything for my Lightweight Commander (a while back, you could have gotten it VERY cheap ). The .45acp is NATO so it's cheap to purchase, you can find it anywhere, it's got great stopping power, AND recoil is managable with practice...

Best of luck in whatever you choose...

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>>>>>>>>------------TMS---------------->>>

 

[HS]

Ding welcome (almost) to the fascinating world of handgun shooting !

I don't even know how to check if the chamber is empty with a real gun (take out the mag, pull the slide back twice, if < 2 shells fall out, you're fine, right?).
Nope, whilst pointing the gun downrange (safe direction), drop the mag & pull the slide back ejecting ONE LOADED CARTRIDGE.
Then pull and/or lock the slide back to again verify the chamber is clear.

My 1st gun was a CZ 75 in 9mm & I can recommend it as a runner up with your other choices.


If you purchase as new but s/h, you may be able to afford TWO guns....
Sound appealing?

Before you go & buy which ever gun you decide on, make sure to come back & see if any of us can dig up a better price on it!

As stated, a .357 magnum revolver can be shot with nice n' light .38 specials/,38+Ps/.38+P+ or (yee haa) .357Magnums.
4"-6" Revolvers weigh more than a semi auto
& are usually more user friendly as the weight helps with recoil.

A semi auto 9mm can be used with a varying bullet weight to produce a lighter or heavier recoil/muzzle flip but is limited again to ammo selection.

So rent/try before you buy as many as you can, then check out the local ranges & gun stores/pawn brokers for prices & we'll do our best for you!

------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
ICQ # 68806935

 

[Matt VDW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't want a .22 for financial reasons (I know I'll HAVE to buy a 9mm later, and I can't afford 2 guns yet), even though it might be cheaper in the long run.[/quote]

Why will you HAVE to buy a 9mm later? Does the state of Utah require everyone to have one?

Since you can't buy a handgun of your own for another five years, I think you'd have plenty of time to save up for a good 9mm pistol later if you started off with a .22 now.

 

[BTR]

With .22 ammo at about 2 cents a round, you can afford to practice a lot. A good .22 pisol isn't that much money. A ruger mark II (which I have) can be got for about $200+. I've never shot a pheonix arms HP22, but they have a good reputation on this board, and are about $125.

I know you said you don't want a .22, but you may want to reconsider. For the cost of one bullet of centerfire, you can shoot an entire magazine of .22.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I'd suggest a Browning Buckmark or a Ruger Mk2 but not the Phoenix. That pistol is needlessly complicated, IMO, and isn't that good for learning. It also seems less durable. .22 revolvers are also good as they are less picky about ammo type/brand/velocity.

------------------
Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

 

[Don Gwinn]

From a fairly new handgunner:

1. Reconsider revolvers. If that fails, reconsider the "complicated" part. Being a fast learner is great, but....beginning is beginning. A revolver in .22 could cost you so little for a quality firearm that five years would be plenty of time to save up. Also solves your revolver recoil concerns.

2. Reconsider the .22. If you absolutely MUST have a 9mm, and it MUST be a semi-auto, and if you can afford it, the CZ-75 can be purchased with a "Kadet" package so you can convert it back and forth between 9mm and .22 anytime you want.

And by the way, the way to check whether the gun is loaded is to remove the magazine (always remember that if you do this in the wrong order, you're screwed) and then rack the slide. If nothing is ejected, lock the slide back and check the chamber itself. The round might have failed to extract. If you see brass you have a problem.

This is all just my opinion. My first handgun was a .22-caliber Ruger MkI, and it's a great little gun. My next was a .44 magnum revolver for deer, and now I've got a Glock 9mm coming. I would normally say a Glock is a bad idea for a beginner, but if you've learned to keep your finger off the trigger at ALL times you should be ok with one.

 

[William R. Wilburn]

Welcome Ding!

Ding, I know you don't want to hear this but, go with a .22 now. You will be able to afford ammo and practice a lot, which is important. Also, the low recoil and report will help keep you from developing a flinch that you will have to correct later. Please wear eye and ear protection so you don't have to go around like me and say, "Huh?" to people. I love close-caption on TV.

Save up for the 9mm as birthday present to yourself when you are legally old enough to make your own purchase.

Definitely take the NRA sponsored Hunter's Safety Course.

If your parents aren't interested in shooting, you may find a good "range daddy or momma" teaching the course or using the range. "Mentor" is the proper word. Choose well, and don't give up if the first answer is "no."

Stay away from unauthorized or "informal" shooting ranges until you have range safety and courtesy down like a religeous rite. In fact, think of firearms handling as a religeous ceremony, in which, you may not deviate from any of the steps or oblations. It is a kind of "Warrior's Sacrament."

I would not recommend a sidearm for a beginner as a first gun. A sidearm is much easier to mis-direct than a long gun (rifle or shotgun). Consider a good .22 rifle. They can be had for less than $200 and will serve you well for many years. Once you are thoroughly schooled in safe long gun handling move on to a pistol. The rifle will introduce you to the concepts of "sight picture," "breath control," and "trigger control." The pistol will hammer the concepts home.

Shoot safely and shoot often.

-William

PS:
I bet your dad won't be able to stay away from your new hobby.
Oh, and if your parents are not interested in firearms; paraphrase Von Clausewitz:

"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

 

[beastman]

I am sure you are tired of hearing this, but reconsider a .22 Most shooters start with a .22 for many reasons:

Inexpensive ammo means lots of affordable practice

No issues with recoil, so you can learn proper techniques (not flinching, etc.)

Mild report and muzzle flash, allowing more focus on technique (see above)


Don't ignore revolvers, as they are fun to shoot and don't have all the complication of an auto. They are great to learn from and then you can move to an auto at a later time. The most important thing to learn is not the mechanics of an auto, but the mechanics of shooting.

Also, consider a rifle. Rifles are easier to shoot well and (in my opinion) a better platform to learn the basics on. Another poster has already said this, so I don't want to belabor the point.


Also, do you know anyone who can "show you the ropes"? I have several friends who knew guns and most importantly GUN SAFETY and pounded into my head how to shoot and shoot safely.


just my .02

[This message has been edited by beastman (edited May 08, 2000).]

 

[TBeck]

All good advice here but let me add one thing.

Ding, be sure you are with one of your parents when you visit the stores and ranges. I work weekends as a sales associate and range safety officer for a local gun store/range. I won't even let you touch a handgun if you are under 21. I can't sell you any ammo either. If your dad is with you I can hand him the gun and then he can hand it to you. Ditto with the ammo. Check up on the state laws concerning minors and firearms. It's not the 1950s anymore (or even the 70s for that matter). Most states have laws severely restricting how minors can possess firearms. Learn them so you or your parents don't inadvertently break the law. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and are approaching firearms with caution and respect. That is as it should be. Good job and good luck!

 

[Ding]

The general consensus here seems to be that I should start with a .22 It sounds like a good idea now. I'll read up a bit on those guns you guys mentioned. And no, I don't have any friends who'd be willing to teach me firearms. Guns aren't very popular in UT, it seems...

As for the legality of this, in the state of UT, if you're between 14 and 18 years old, you only need your parents' permission or be accompanied by them. I think I'll be fine.

I think I'll go with a .22 after all and get something bigger later on. Thanks for all the advice, guys.

 

[M1911]

I'm not familiar with an NRA hunter safety course. Most hunter safety courses don't do any actual shooting. I'd recommend instead an NRA Basic Pistol class, which does include shooting.

I also recommend that you start with a .22. A box of 50 9mm cartridges costs $7-10. In constrast, you can get 550 .22lr cartridges for $10.

Jared

 

[William R. Wilburn]

Say Ding,

I got to thinking (my wife laughs at that description of my mental processes), and;

You might want to check with the local Boy Scouts of America. They often maintain Explorer Posts involved in Reserve Law Enforcement and Search and Rescue. An Explorer Post in your area might be a good place to get involved with people who are firearms friendly and the cost is minimal.

Also, I would ask around the ranges about organized shooting teams. A good coach would speed up your profiency, and allow you to practice in a safe and supervised enviroment.

A phone call is all it would take. You might meet some people who would help you along.

-William

 

[plinker2]

Greetings Ding: Welcome to the wonderful world of shooting. In Utah, you have such wide open spaces, I can only dream of the fun in store for you and your gun(s). I have to agree the the others, your pistol should be a .22 model. You can shoot and shoot and shoot and still have some money to save, not so for any other caliber. My first pistol was the Ruger 22/45. I have 10 magazines for it and have always enjoyed shooting. I would recommed it to you as a first pistol. A young fellow up in Kentucky made up a web site for the 22/45, you can look it up at http://network54.com/Hide/Forum.52578 I hope you can find someone to teach you safety and respect for your new hobby. Take any classes you can but one on one will be your best bet. --plinker2--

 

[desmond57]

Ding, You (and your parents) need to be informed as to the FEDERAL laws.

You have gotten great advice here, BUT, you need to be aware that it is against FEDERAL
law for you to own a Handgun if you are under 18. The handling of a handgun without the WRITTEN permission of your parents on YOUR PERSON is a violation of federal law.
And even with that only under special circumstances is it allowed (target ranges, at home, etc.)

How do I know this? I was informed by one of the ranges I took my 15 year old to, I checked the ATF web site, I wrote letters to both the ATF & the NRA. All confirmed what I said above.

My recommendation, get a .22 Rifle. (A Marlin would be great). Remember, the smallest conviction against your record today could prevent you from EVER owning a gun Ever again.

So be safe until you are 18 and save you dollars till then.

 

[Ding]

desmond:

I was under the impression that local laws overrode federal laws. Under federal law (AFAIK, I can't find much at NRAILA) it is unlawful for anyone under 21 to posess a handgun. If that's the case, why would the local law say 18 if it doesn't apply anyway?
Could someone clear it up for me?

 

[Steve Smith]

Ding, I have to say that the NRA "Hunters Safety Course" is not what you want. What you want to do is take a NRA "Personal Protection/Pistol and firearm safety" course. Even though you don't necissarily need the personal protection part, the two courses are normally given together, and provide a waeth of knowledge. The minimum class time for the Hunter safety is 6 hrs. and that's normally all you get. The PP/P-hs is 18 hours long (over three days) and the local place here in CO stretches that to 22-24 hours for extra info. I'm training to be an instructor for that class. I'm very serious that this s the course you need. It will answer all your questions and much more. It's quite common for us to have a class with folks who have never touched a gun. Those folks feel very comfortable with guns after the class.

[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited May 08, 2000).]