Newbie questions re: .38Spl bullets

[carguychris]

Howdy all,

I'm a newbie reloader preparing to order my first batch of equipment. I've done my research (this site, others, "ABC's of Reloading" book) so I pretty much know what I need in terms of the gear. I've accumulated several hundred rounds worth of brass in preparation for this moment. However, I'm thinking about buying some bullets with my initial order too. Questions:

1) Do cast lead bullets normally come lubed in the package?

2) I'm tempted to try Rainier LeadSafe bullets since they seem to have earned good reviews online (this forum included), they're inexpensive, and I happen to like my brain cells. The question: Do they need to be lubed?

3) My reloading will initially be for informal paper punching and plinking; I don't hunt, and I'm not going to handload SD ammo until I know what I'm doing. What's a good "old standby" bullet weight and configuration to start out with for .38Spl?

Thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. 158 gr roundnose. It will do nearly everything except provide much "stopping power." (I have been handloading since 1970 and I still don't think I know enough to load defensive ammunition.)

 

[Sevens]

I'm curious about the desire for the plated bullets to keep your brain cells in good shape. Do you do a lot of indoor shooting in a poorly ventilated range? If not, don't chew the bullets and you should be pretty safe from brain cell killage.

If you do a lot of indoor shooting in a poorly ventilated range, the primer dust will kill whatever the lead particles don't get!

If you are starting with .38 special, I highly recommend cast full wadcutters. These look like little coffee cans. They are exactly the same from either end, and with a little shot of Bullseye powder are beautifully accurate and will punch the cleanest holes possible in any paper target. 148 grainers. Cheap, buy 'em by the 500 or more. You load these nearly flush with the front of the brass. When properly loaded, they don't look like any ammo you've ever seen but they shoot like a dream.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

I load 158g lead round nose and semi wadcutter for both .38 and 357. Since you control the powder you can determine how much kick you want to live with. Start about .3g above minimum and work your way up. Watch for signs of pressure in the primers after firing and any distortion in the cases. Stay about 1.0g below max to stay safe. Try different powders if you can afford it, they do not all perform the same. I personally use Accurate #2 for handgun loads.

 

[thebees]

.38 loading

I wouldn't worry much about brain cells going away. I've loaded 10's of thousands of 38 spl in the last 40 years and I'm ok. Well my wife argues that point but you know wives.
I personally like lighter bullets like a 125 grains round nose. In the 150 to 168 weights I prefer s semi-wadcutter like a Keith bullet. Makes a nice hole in paper. They all will ring a gong or kick a can or whatever. All cast bullets I've ever seen come lubed. You can buy 'em too cheap now to bother casting your own. The only question is how hard you want.. I like hardcast bullets. They may lead less but all cast bullets lead some. I also like the Ranier coated bullets for auto pistols. I've prolly loaded 10k 9mm rounds when my brother and I shot IDPA several years ago.
For powder, I've used mostly Win. 231 unless I was loading hot stuff for a Ruger Blackhawk and then used mostly Unique for velocity. Wouldn't want to shoot any of that stuff in a S&W revolver.
The only real caution involved in loading pistol rounds is that the powder charges are small and particularly if you use Bullseye, you can get a double charge and it's hard to see it. Start out with a regular single stage press to learn. After charging (powder) a bunch of cases, say 50 or 100 or whatever, put them in a loading block and look carefully at each one. If you find an empty one in your loading block, means you prolly have a double next to it.
Jump in there. Loading is fun and satisfying and it's not rocket science.

 

[beaderman]

I'm new here and thought I'd throw in my recipe for a good .38 special hand load. Since I use a charter arms 5 shot snubby -(paper targets only) @ 25 yards


I use 148 DWC high tech
loaded with 2.9 unique powder
Rem. S.P. primers
Which gives me 600 F.P.S.

Its amazing what those wadcutters do with with accuracy , specially from a snub nose. I get a few drifters here and there but I can chew out a 3 inch section pretty well.


(Safety note please check this load with you reloading manuals first)
<disclaimer I am not recommending this load to anyone>

 

[carguychris]

Thanks for the input, y'all!

I'm going to take a little of everyone's advice. I'm going to start out with:

158 gr LSWC
148 gr LWC
125 gr Rainier PFN (close enough to PRN, which Rainier doesn't offer)

I'm not going to order any jacketed bullets yet because I recently purchased 2 cases of Remington UMC 130 gr JFNs and I still have >600 of them left. I figure I'll use them all first.

Now to decide on powder... I think I'll start with some combo of W231, Unique, and HP-38 because those 3 seem to be very versatile in .38Spl... comments?

 

[Jim Watson]

HP38 comes off the same production line as Win 231, you don't need both. Lot variation makes my current can of HP38 about .2 grain "faster" than the last 231 I had. You can get a little more velocity with Unique, but since I can get .38 +p with 231 or HP38, I don't bother with it, either.

Roll crimp the 158 SWC in the groove provided.
Some wadcutters have a crimp groove behind a narrow front band. Some are to be seated flush and crimped over the leading edge, there is usually a slight bevel or relief there for the purpose. At least there is on the Speers I have used for years.

TAPER crimp the plated bullets, not very hard so as to not cut through the thin plating.

 

[Thirties]

I also suggest a box of Speer (or other brands, but I like the Speers) 148 grain hollow base wadcutters (HBWC). Berry's also sells plated ones. Those Speers have a really slick (literally) dark lubricant that doesn't gum up your seating die.

They are swaged lead, not cast. They are the standard .38 bullet for accuracy out to within 50 yards.

 

[carguychris]

Thanks for the input, I've ordered 500 Speer 148 gr HBWCs.

Some wadcutters have a crimp groove behind a narrow front band. Some are to be seated flush and crimped over the leading edge, there is usually a slight bevel or relief there for the purpose. At least there is on the Speers I have used for years.

So this means that I should seat a Speer HBWC with the leading edge almost flush with the end of the case... correct?

Also, how should I create a roll crimp vs. a taper crimp? Do I need a special die for this?

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...create a roll crimp vs. a taper crimp?..." Most die sets for .38 Special will give you a roll crimp with the seating die. You don't need a taper crimp for .38's. You don't need any crimp for target velocity .38's at all. The .45 ACP(and most other semi-auto ammo. .38's fired out of a high priced S&W M52, do not.) uses a taper crimp only and is done with a taper crimp die. It headspaces on the case mouth. .38's headspace on the rim.
The standard target load for 148 grain WC's for eons has been 2.5 to 2.8 grains of Bullseye. Load 'em flush and forget the crimp. Neck tension is enough.
You don't need to worry about lead poisoning from normal cast or swaged bullet handling. Lead poisoning from reloading comes from casting lead bullets in a room with insufficient ventilation. Wash your hands after loading and you'll be fine.

 

[zxcvbob]

The most accurate bullet I've found for my 4" .38 Special is Berry's 125 grain plated hollow points. (I think because the hollow cavity is very deep, so the bullet is really long and has a lot of bearing surface.) They are reasonbly priced at Cabela's -- at least last time I checked.

The do-all bullet for .38 Special is the old 158 grain RNFP cowboy bullet. It has a wide nose (meplat) like a SWC, but no sharp edges to catch when you are loading them. If your gun has fixed sights, they are probably regulated for 158 grain bullets.

231 is the standard powder for the .38 Special (so I've never tried it, LOL) I usually use Promo or Unique. Bullseye is next on my list of powders to try.

 

[Sevens]

I tend to use the DBBWC (double bevel base wadcutter, the one that looks the same from both ends) because it's a cast bullet and I have a decent (somewhat local) maker here in my area and I get them by the 500 box. But I agree... the standard target load is the swaged hollow-base wadcutter. If you can find those for the same price or less, or if you aren't concerned about the price, the hollow-based wadcutter is likely a better choice. But if I were experimenting like you are, I'd grab a small box of the cast DBBWC and see if they work for ya.

As for crimp, T. O'Heir covered it pretty well, except for mentioning how to come up with a crimp when you decide you do need (or want to try) one. Your bullet seating die is also a roll crimp die if you screw down far enough. You can get the feel for this by making up some dummy rounds that you don't mind crushing and wrecking until you get the feel for making adjustments.

After I've flared a case mouth to accept a bullet, it simply seems natural to me to roll it up a bit after the bullet is seated. The key with both case mouth flaring and roll crimping is just to do as little of each as you can get by with. You do NOT want the case mouth flared open like a funnel, and you don't want to roll crimp it so fiercely that it won't let go of a bullet. Both operations will over-work your brass and shorten it's life, and excessive crimping can raise pressures and deform bullets which can just ruin your day in so many ways.

If you want a taper crimp, you'll need to buy a different die to do that. I actually do put a very slight roll crimp on my DBBWC loads, because as was mentioned, they seat with a tiny little bit sticking out of the end of the cartridge case (where the hollow base wadcutters sit completely flush) and there's a nice little groove which takes a slight roll crimp beautifully.

One more thing worth mentioning-- don't mix up your ammo on range day. There's a school of thought that says firing jacketed ammo down your barrel after putting a bunch of lead through it is harmful, and that you need to give the bore a good cleaning between bullet types. For my buck, I don't know the details of this, but it's been easy enough for me to follow as I clean my guns between each range session anyhow. I'd like to hear more on this subject from those that know.

Powder for .38 special? I've used many pounds of Bullseye and Green Dot. Green Dot works, but it's really dirty and smoky in lighter loads. That hasn't seemed to keep me from using it!

The .38 special has got to be the best cartridge in the world for a beginning handloader. There's variety in bullets styles and weight and powders, there's countless recipes to try, there's incredible accuracy potential, and (unlike loading for semi-autos), you don't have to worry about feeding issues and function, or much crimping.

 

[Sevens]

Oh yeah... quick tip about Bullseye-- it's among the fastest burning of all powders, so you end up with a charge that takes up a very small space. That makes Bullseye a powder you need to be very careful with at the bench, because there's enough space in the case for a double (and in some cases) even a triple charge of the stuff.

Obviously, you've got to be cognizant of charge levels with every/any powder you use... but none so more than with Bullseye.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have always roll crimped my .38 wadcutters because:
1. I used them in PPC and they speedload a bit easier with the roll.
2. I shoot them in a S&W M52 auto and they feed better with a roll crimp than taper.

For slowfire you can play around with different crimps and see if you can tell any difference in pure accuracy.

I flare the dickens out of my brass. I don't worry about brass life, I worry about insufficiently flared brass scraping up the side of the bullet and sending it off into the seven ring... or worse.