Newbie here, with mystery Savage 22 - PICS

[-Fluffy-]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here, but I'm sure I'll have many more. I inherited a couple guns from a grandfather that passed a couple years ago, and have not yet been able to identify this one. I have looked everywhere, and taken it to two local gun shops, but have not yet found the identity of this rifle. I need to find out for two reasons: One is because I just want to know what I have, and two is because it needs a replacement part. Here's a few pictures. It limits me to 6, so I'll have to add more in another post. Also, never mind that the rear sight is removed in a couple pictures.

One of the reasons it's been hard to identify, is its general lack of distinguishing marks. All of the marks I've found, will pictured here for reference, 14900 on rear of bolt, G on trigger guard plate, Z on bolt, and the patent years as shown. I haven't found anything else, and there's nothing under the butt-plate.

The part I need to replace is the rear sight. As it is, the horizontal adjustment knob is broken off (circled in red), vertical one is bent, and somebody added a spot of weld to keep it from further movement.

The closest I've come to this rifle, appears to be the model 19 NRA, but that rifle is different in many ways. They come in either a short or long stock, and usually have a larger front and rear sight, with dimples in the front portion of the stock. Here's a combo picture of the 19 NRA and the sights. Notice the one sight looks like a match for mine, but it mounts using TWO screws, whereas mine uses only one.

The barrel is 25.25" when measured from the chamber, the stock is 34" and the entire gun measures 43.5" long overall.
Any help would be very much appreciated, thanks.

Ross

 

[Scorch]

OK, definitely a Savage, but not a Model 19 NRA (wrong stock, wrong ejection port shape, wrong cocking piece shape, and not detachable magazine fed). You have a Model 1917 22 LR rifle.

 

[PetahW]

AFAIK, Savage never made a .22lr bolt-action rifle designated as the Model of 1917.

Although there is a very slim possibility you have an experimental Model 1922 rifle, your rifle looks like an early Model 23A, and should have a 23" bbl.

.

 

[-Fluffy-]

I've never been 100% clear on the proper measurement points when it comes to the barrel. I measured mine from where the rear of the bullet shell/case sits when it's struck, as shown in the first photo below. Also, mine is magazine fed, with a detachable 5 round. Here's some more pics. I had 17 pics originally, but it limited me to 6 per post, so I'll have to split them up a little bit. I know that my gun is NOT a model 19 NRA, I was just saying that's the closest thing I've found thus far. My camera sits next to me always, so If you want any pics of anything specific, let me know. I'm a photo freak, and believe that all forums can always use more pictures.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[steve99f]

mystery Savage

fluffy,

You have an uncommon rifle, not rare, just uncommon. It's a Model 1922. Intro'd by Savage after the Model 19 and before the Model 23A. The ejection port and bolt knob are the giveaways. SN is 14,900. That rear sight will set you back some if you can find one.

Measure the barrel from the bolt face to the muzzle.

 

[-Fluffy-]

So, in other words, I measured the barrel correctly? When looking up the 1922 rifles, I see nothing that looks like mine. I can't yet be sure, without seeing one of these "1922s".

 

[PetahW]

The correct method of measuring barrel lengths of any firearm excepting revolvers is to drop a rod downbore until it contacts the face of the closed/cocked bolt/breech, and mark the rod at the muzzle.
Then, withdraw the rod and measure the marked length.

(Revolvers are marked in much the same way, except the downbore rod should be limited by a straight edge across the face of the cylinder or rear end of the barrel)

FWIW, There's not a whole lot of people around, Savage collectors included, who've actually seen a Model 1922 in the flesh.

.

 

[steve99f]

The usual method is to close the bolt, push a cleaning rod down the barrel from the muzzle, mark it, etc. Your method is close enough.

The only place you will likely read anything about the Model 1922 is on the Savage collector forum on another site, 24 hourcampfire. They are also mentioned in Phil Sharpe's book," The Rifle", published in 1938, republished a few times, most recently by the NRA. In that book, Phil Sharpe states they were in production for no more than a year.

You can check out Jay Kimmel's book and Bill West's book.
Both wrote about Savage. Doug Murray wrote about the Model 99 only. Recently Bailey Brower has a book out on Savage pistols. Good luck in your search.

 

[steve99f]

This model isn't the only rifle they sold without model identification on it. The rifle that succeded it, stamped "Sporter" is the Model 23 A but not marked that way. Their first 22 pump rifle with the clip magazine in front of the trigger guard is the Model 1903 but never maked as such.

And PetahW is correct, they aren't encountered very often, I've not seen one in person.

 

[-Fluffy-]

So then, you guys are sure this is a 1922?

 

[steve99f]

I am.

Compare the end of your bolt, the cocking knob, and the size and shape of your ejection port with any picture you can find for a Savage M 23A or "Sporter". The one other thing to check that I missed is to check the bolt. Does it have two firing pins? If so, there can be no doubt, only the 1922 had this dual pin.

One thing I'm not sure of is the wood. One thing you might find though is see if the serial number is stamped under the butt plate on the butt and the plate itself. If it matches the serial on the rifle, you're 90% there. This is a stretch though because while you will find numbers stamped there, it wasn't critical for bolt action rifles made by Savage to fit all the parts up to the same rifle, like they did for the Model 1899 and 99. It's worth a shot though.

 

[-Fluffy-]

Dual firing pins? Yes.

So, it appears confirmed, I have a 1922. Is that also when it was made, or just a model number? Strange that you say it's not necessarily rare, but uncommon. I'm not sure how different the two terms can be, and if most Savage collectors have never seen one, wouldn't that indicate rarity?

It's not like I'm looking to sell it or anything, just curious, and mildly amused. I've been attracted to, and somehow myself attract, unusual items pretty much my whole life. It only seems fitting that my firearms would continue the trend.

 

[ndking1126]

Awesome thread. Just when I think posts start to get repetitive, something cool and unusual comes up like this.

Thanks for posting. I've certainly never seen anything like it.

 

[Junior88]

I've got to say that this is only my second day as a member and I'm impressed with all the things I've read and learned already. I may not be able to contribute any gun knowledge to the conversations, but I am looking forward to learning from those of you that can.

 

[tightgrouper]

I've enjoyed the pics, Ross.

It's neat to see the trade craftsmanship in that old rifle.
It's been well kept. Very neat!

 

[steve99f]

Fluffy,

The only reference I have is the Sharpe book and he indicates that it was made in 1922 only and calls it the Model 1922.

With regard to my terminology, what's rare? 3,5, 10,100? Those numbers would be rare to me. No one knows for sure how many were made but I would suspect that even for a rifle made for a year or less would still have production figures of at least 4 to 5,000. Survival rate of 22 RF rifles was low back then, they were tools, not collectibles. Still not rare to me though, just uncommon.

Fluffy, have it as you like. You've got a nice rifle there, should be pretty accurate if the bore is good. That rear sight by itself is worth some money.

Sorry for the late reply, was out for the PA buck opener this week. No joy but had a blast.

 

[radom]

If it shoots like a 23 or the NRA you have one fine shooter there that will beat most any newer made rifle there. I bet they did not make a huge amount of the things as the more refined 23 replaced it in short order. Just the 23s and the NRA rifles are finds now as you dont see many of them around.

I might mention that some of the folks at rimfirecentral.com would probably like to see the pictures of this thing and have some more info on it.

 

[steve99f]

That's a good idea, some knowledgeable collectors there. Most of what I posted I learned from those guys, just passing it along. Also the Savage collectors board at 24hourcampfire.

 

[steve99f]

I'm wrong

Fluffy,

Apologies are in order. Your rifle is an early Model 1919 with the wood remodeled, IOW, not factory.

The wood bothered me so I kept digging. I found out that the early M1919's and the M1922's both had dual firing pins and used the same cocking knob.

The stock would be the original full military style you pictured in your original post.

Sorry for the misleading info provided earlier.

 

[-Fluffy-]

So, the story has changed from 1922 to 1919? Well, I'll have to take a look into those and see what I can find. Not doubting anybody here, just always want to be sure. Thanks for all the help.