New Zealand Gun Ban

[ThomasT]

Heard on the news today that New Zealand is banning all military style rifles and an immediate ban on the sale of parts to make them down the road. Also a gun turn in (buy back) to be put in place.

I fully expected this. After all Australia did the same thing long ago. I am guessing the people that want to do this here will be watching and saying "we can do the same thing" and the world will be safer.

When will they learn that bans don't stop crazy or eliminate hate?

 

[rickyrick]

The people generally seem to support it. Many Australians say that their banns were successful. I have some buddies that own guns and do a lot of shooting that live in Australia, they just don’t have easy access to semiautomatic rifles and they seem content with that. They own lever action rifles and are ok with that because they haven’t had a mass shooting since the bans.
If New Zealanders are ok with it, then that’s their choice.

I’ve seen at least one of the more popular presidential candidates state that they would like to Institute a similar ban here in the USA.

 

[buck460XVR]

The people generally seem to support it. Many Australians say that their banns were successful. I have some buddies that own guns and do a lot of shooting that live in Australia, they just don’t have easy access to semiautomatic rifles and they seem content with that. They own lever action rifles and are ok with that because they haven’t had a mass shooting since the bans.
If New Zealanders are ok with it, then that’s their choice.

Kinda the way I see it. Seems there was little or no opposition to the ban, folks actually welcomed it, even tho the cost to the 5 million citizens is 138 million.

 

[Rangerrich99]

The idea that AUS hasn't had a mass shooting/killing spree since the bans post Port Arthur is actually not exactly factually correct.

Monash Univeristy-2002

Poulson Murders 2003

Oakhampton Heights 2005

There are several others. However, they haven't had a mass shooting of the scale of the Port Arthur Massacre, that I'll concede. But multiple people are still getting shot in AUS.

 

[rickyrick]

True, I doubt it had much effect on overall crime, but they do seem to be satisfied with it all the same. Many are even proud of it, even though they still enjoy guns.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

They have always been "subjects" and don't understand what it is to be free.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The people generally seem to support it. Many Australians say that their banns were successful. I have some buddies that own guns and do a lot of shooting that live in Australia, they just don’t have easy access to semiautomatic rifles and they seem content with that. They own lever action rifles and are ok with that because they haven’t had a mass shooting since the bans.

The Australian ban was in response to one mass shooting. How many mass shootings did Australia have before the ban?

 

[TBM900]

The Australian ban was in response to one mass shooting. How many mass shootings did Australia have before the ban?

If you look equidistant the years before and after the 'ban', you'll find the number of so-called mass shootings is nearly equal.
The same can be said for the number firearm murders overall.

Many will also assert 'gun deaths/shootings dropped after the ban'.
Well that is true, BUT the number was also dropping before 'the ban'.
In fact is was dropping at about the same rate before and after, meaning it had no effect.

 

[rickyrick]

Don’t know, I assume none or a low number. I never talked to them about that either. My Aussie buddies do like to see pictures of my ARs. They do say that they wish that they could own them but are generally still ok with a ban... I’m not in favor of any ban, for sure, but for some of us Americans, it is a reality and probably going happen to more of us. I don’t see any marches of significant numbers in favor of less gun bans, but I do see large groups marching and demanding more gun restrictions.
393 million guns, but we are largely absent on election days. Go vote.

 

[ThomasT]

The people generally seem to support it. Many Australians say that their banns were successful. I have some buddies that own guns and do a lot of shooting that live in Australia, they just don’t have easy access to semiautomatic rifles and they seem content with that. They own lever action rifles and are ok with that because they haven’t had a mass shooting since the bans.
If New Zealanders are ok with it, then that’s their choice.

I have also heard that a lot of the Remington pump guns model 7615 that took AR mags made it there and were popular. I had one of those and for the life of me can't remember why I sold it. I would love to have another one. I liked it much better than the AR-15 I own now.

If we ever have a ban I bet Remington starts making them again. You gotta have something to shoot up all the 223 ammo.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If you want to discuss the details of the NZ gun ban, fine.

If you want to discuss Hitler - it's deleted. I've closed one NZ thread that went off the rails, let's try to discuss the ban and not anything else.

 

[rickyrick]

I think for a small island nation such as this, the ban will probably help. Since the attacks are rare there, and the coming and going of products can be controlled more.
It can’t really be compared to the USA. If the citizens support this, then that’s ok with me.

 

[ThomasT]

If you want to discuss the details of the NZ gun ban, fine.

If you want to discuss Hitler - it's deleted. I've closed one NZ thread that went off the rails, let's try to discuss the ban and not anything else.

Yes please keep politics out of this. I started this thread to talk about the fall of the ownership of certain guns in other countries. I don't do politics. Politics bore me to death and I don't trust politicians on either side. Lets just talk about guns.

 

[davidsog]

But multiple people are still getting shot in AUS.

Yes they are and violence has not subsided except to follow the trend it was on for 20 years before the ban.

Did the Australian model at least reduce gun-related homicides?

That is hotly disputed.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/10/australia-gun-control-obama-america/



In fact the United States has seen a much statistically relevant drop in gun violence despite a huge increase in gun ownership.

Firearm homicides did fall post 1996 gun control – at exactly the same pace as they were naturally falling before gun control. Over a similar period (1993-2014), gun homicides in America were cut by more than half. Keep in mind that guns per capita increased about 50% in America over this period.

And the overall homicide rate fell faster in the U.S.:

https://bongino.com/did-gun-control-really-reduce-violence-in-australia/

 

[tipoc]

I know nothing much about New Zealand's history or the laws affecting firearms there.

It's unclear to me if the bans proposed are simply proposals to be voted on by the Legislature their or went onto effect as soon as the Prime minister announced them as a decree by the PM. The press here treats them as a decree from the NZ PM, said and done.

I also can't say that the majority in NZ support the proposed (?) bans. I don't assume that.

The killings there were an act of political terror. A planned act of mass murder to make political points. A ban on certain firearms will not end that. A determined terrorist will find a weapon to accomplish their ends.

ISIS has apparently called for killings/bombings in retaliation. So one of the killers goals has been met. Another one, heating up the debate on guns in the U.S. has also been met.

Point being that an effort to fight terrorism in NZ by banning innocent people's rights to certain firearms is ineffective and counterproductive.

The banned items could be put into better effect by attendees of the NZ mosques to have armed, trained and disciplined sentries on duty to defend against murderess assault. If this was done under the flag of defense of the right to worship, inviting all to participate and protect, it could, without a shot being fired, be a victory for democratic rights and a unifying factor in NZ.

tipoc

 

[zukiphile]

It's unclear to me if the bans proposed are simply proposals to be voted on by the Legislature their or went onto effect as soon as the Prime minister announced them as a decree by the PM. The press here treats them as a decree from the NZ PM, said and done.

She certainly made it sound that way. NZ has a parliament from which the upper house was abolished several decades before Blair did essentially the same thing.

I heard her pressed in an interview about how her ban would change NZ culture in which leisure and hunting were a big deal. She then pivoted away from "law WILL change" to how sportsmen and farmers need to be part of the conversation.

 

[rickyrick]

I guess NZ PM has a lot more executive power than I had anticipated for sure. Sounds like it was instantaneous at least as portrayed in the news.

 

[DaleA]

Well we in the "gun community" should at least acknowledge the fact that a mass shooting could not be done with a pump shotgun, a lever action rifle or a couple of revolvers...

Uhhh...but wait.... (sarcasm off)

 

[hubris]

After a bit of 'Google' time it appears that semi auto long gun sales have been banned (there are some qualifiers to that) with the promise that an actual prohibition is to follow.Currently that applies to the firearms of the type(s) used by the mosque shooter. There is the expectation of a buy back similar to Australia costing about $140m US.

Interestingly, not many firearms are actually registered so no one actually knows the number affected. LEO's are asking people to just bring the guns on in with a hint of "or else." One law professor noted there is a significant difference between countries where firearms are permitted rather than a codified right. Interesting to watch.

 

[Dfariswheel]

Countries like the British Commonwealth have a political system in which it's easy to steamroll and bum's rush into law whatever they want.
What Rights they have are due to laws passed by a parliament and to tradition.
What one Parliament can make into law, another can un-make just as easily.

Our Founding Fathers were not fools and were in fact some of the greatest geniuses of all time. What's so amazing is that so many were in one small colony at one time.
They left us two of the most incredible systems of all time.....
A written Constitution not subject to a quick change without the people's consent.
And a political system specifically designed to NOT allow laws to be quickly changed.

Since the Constitution is not a traditional law passed by a political body, it can't simply be changed because a prime minister or parliament want it changed.
The Constitution over rides laws that conflict with it.
So, congress could pass a law tomorrow banning all firearms and it would have no legal effect because of the Constitution.

The bottom line is America is not NZ, England, Japan, Canada, or anywhere else.
A good read on why America is not, is the book "The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy" by David Kopel.
America was born different then any other country. Of the other countries only America won it's own freedom, and the founding fathers clearly saw how other counties were ruled by the aristocrats.

They gave us a Constitution to restrain the government and force the government to respect the Rights of the people.
One of the key Rights was an armed people that would insure that we wouldn't have a prime minister just announcing that one of their freedoms was no longer available.

The Left just don't understand that the Constitution is not an ala carte menu where you can say "Give me a helping of Number One, and a helping of Number 3, hold the Number Two".
If you do that, don't be surprised if one of your favorites is not on tomorrows menu.

Someone recently said that there's nothing in NZ but a lot of cattle and sheep.
He was very right.

We're not (not all of us) sheep, we're free people
While NZ is not America this is appropriate so I'll leave you with this from Sam Adams.....

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams