New to forum but not to the hobby

[Sevens]

New guy here... an old veteran of online discussion forums, so I know how to add to the population without bringing down the s/n ratio. The only part of the site I've read is this one on handloading... My first step was to spend a week lurking and reading back 10 pages worth of threads. If I had more time I'd have a blast on the rest or the site, too, I'm sure. Frankly, I could probably spend the next year reading back even further just in this forum, and I will, but I figured I'd toss a few questions to the masses and see what gets tossed back while I do that.

I started handloading in '88 or '89, and I took two long breaks from it between '96 and '03 and '03 and two months ago. I load single stage with a Lee Challenger "2001" press (when I bought it, it was guaranteed until the year 2001!) At some point in the last 4 years, this SOB seized up and I beat the snot out of it to get it moving again... and I was sure I was going to destroy it and replace it but no! It's still working, and seems no worse for wear. It's built slightly different than the Challenger they sell now, the linkage is a bit different and must be more durable than the current ones that some folks seem to break on occasion. I'm more than ready to replace it with the Classic Cast press but I just haven't needed to yet.

I'm loading .38/.357, 10mm, .45 and .223. I have dies for the 8x57 but no brass or components yet. I'm seriously considering starting up in 9mm also. I honestly enjoy the hobby of handloading more than shooting. Probably because I can do the loading at my leisure, whereas the shooting requires a lot of gear to be hauled, brass to be chased, guns to be cleaned, targets to be hung, etc etc. Also, there's the sense of accomplishment... I love coming up from the workspace with a new box of ammo no matter how long it took.

I like the feel of the discussion in this forum. Respectful, informational and enjoyable. I enjoyed the recent post about the old range rat (Ollie?) who had his whole setup in the trunk of the car and used the same five rifle brass all day long and even dug lead out of dirt at the range. Terrific stuff. And many more like it.

I'm back in to shooting after a long hiatus because I had little kids and little time and NOWHERE decent to shoot. Now the kids are a bit older, I've got a buddy with 17 acres and a range I helped him build--25, 50 and 100 yard firing points. It's (almost!) the range I've always wanted, not quite an hour away. Even better for a handloader -- he buys factory ammo and spreads brass from hell to breakfast and has no interest in any of it! I enjoy scrounging for brass almost as much as handloading!

Add to that I'm a motorcycle guy even more than the shooting stuff and I'm a hardcore hockey fan and that's who I am. I'll start with a few softball questions next.

thanks!

 

[Sevens]

1) I find cast wadcutters in .38 special in bevel-base or double-ended bevel base and rarely see them in hollow-base but it's been my experience that the guys who shoot competitively (PPC?) use the hollow base. How do you guys think they compare/constrast with each other? Also, what do you think of the idea of making .357 mag wadcutter loads? I've had great success with very consistent and accurate BBWC loads in .38 special (this must be the easiest accomplishment in all of handloading!) but I like the idea of the much more ridiculous BANG from the .357, too. Concern about leading with DBBWC in .357 mag at mid-range power? Thoughts?

2) In a related thought, I see cast SWC bullets offered in flat-base (plain-base) and also in bevel base. Again, any reasonable difference here? Any experiences?

3) I've always cleaned primer pockets in all my brass and without a doubt, it's the one part of the hobby I can't stand. I've read some occasional opinions where some don't bother for handgun calibers. Being that all of my shooting is recreational plinking and not match shooting, I think I'm headed that way for all my reloading except my .223 T/C Contender rounds and the 8x57 when I start. Whaddya think? Does anyone else skip the primer pocket cleaning?

4) Roll crimp, taper crimp, Lee "Factory Crimp" ? I know this answer is different for each caliber and specific firearm, but so far, I've only ever used light roll crimping and I don't ever seem to have problems in any caliber I've loaded, in everything from revolvers, to semi-autos to my single shot T/C.

5) 10mm data seems scarce... but I see folks on here who load it. Anyone using hard cast SWC? I find more recipes for .40S&W and bullets meant for it, but I shoot the 10 from my S&W 1006. Seems to me that my rounds don't recoil as much as factory, they don't BOOM! as loud as factory, and they don't have the same level of shock as factory (and that's okay as I haven't pushed any of them) but what concerns me is that I'm still seeing really flat, stiff-load looking primers on fired cases, so I'm leery to work loads up. Tell you what I'd like to do... is find out if I can get a .40S&W barrel and magazine for my 1006 and shoot it instead of 10mm. I love the caliber and the power and all that goes with it, but the brass is friggin' scarce and expensive, whereas the .40S&W practically comes in the mail with sample packets of Tide. So not much of a question here, but tell me about your experiences with shooting and handloading the 10mm. And tell me how you elected to purchase a 10mm in the first place. And how much future you think there is for this caliber.

6) In my sig line you'll see "Bastard Mauser" -- not because I don't like it, but because it's unidentified and non-collectible. It's a K98 (K?) and I don't know jack about these rifles. I bought it because it was cheap ($160) and I don't have any centerfire rifles and after sooting it, I like it enough to want to make it better. I should go to a different forum to discuss this and I will, but if you see it in my sig line, don't think I hate the Mauser-- it's just that it's a non-collectible and unidentified old leftover. And if you want to toss a bunch of advice or tips or links at me on the subject of how to make it a shooter, I'm all ears. First thing I must do is to get a better trigger for it.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Welcome!!

Sevens--Glad to have you aboard! Sounds like you do bring with you a wealth of experience.

I'll confine myself to yr Mauser this time. (1) Timney makes a really nice trigger for K98k's which will amaze you with its smoothness, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Get that first. Midway, Brownells, or Boyd's Gunstocks will have it. (2) Boyd's makes a beautiful line of stocks for the 98. Get a laminated, unfinished (meaning not varnished--it's all carved & shaped!) one in the style you like, glass-bed it (same 3 sources for the glass-bed kit. It's scary the first time but if I can do it anybody can.) Then sand, sand sand the stock--the most tedious part of any woodworking project--give it several coats of varnish, and you're done. Voila! A lighter, hunting-style stock on a gun that shoots a really good cartridge.

If you want to go a step further, get a scout 'scope mount (goes on the rear sight base) and a scout 'scope. Anyhow, that's the things I'd do. Since the gun is already an unidentifiable beater, you're not destroying any history, and all the steps above are reversible anyhow, should you desire to return it to military configuration. Good project. I did it with a Mauser M-48.

The people @ Boyd's are used to newbies; they were patient and helpful with me. www.boydsgunstocks.com 1-605-996-5011

At any rate, welcome once again!

 

[buckster]

Welcome

Glad your here. I'm just starting on .223 for the first time, and this sizing and trimming and the things necessary to take used brass [especially military] and turn into a great round for an AR would be great!

 

[CrustyFN]

Sevens, welcome to TFL.
Rusty

 

[nobius]

Primer Pocket Cleaning

I've always cleaned primer pockets in all my brass and without a doubt, it's the one part of the hobby I can't stand.

A major +1 to that!

I generally only clean the primer pocket if there is a buildup of cleaning media that would interfere with seating the primer. I really haven't seen any difference in groupings b/w cleaned and uncleaned primer pockets.

 

[Sevens]

Thanks for the welcome, folks. Smokey Joe, I'd -love- to do that for my Mauser... but sanding, varnish and then glass bed a rifle stock?! I've never done any kind of wood working of any sort in my life. I will do that trigger... Midway shows the Timney "sportsman" trigger for like $40, that sounds like a great deal. I'd probably be more apt to spend a little more for a stock that I can simply drop the barreled action into rather than try to sand and finish myself. In checking out your link, it seems I can do that for a little more than twice the price.

I will have to give it some thought! I guess I'm trying to figure out how much I can toss at this project before I come to the realization that all I really wanted to begin with was a cost-effective, field-accuracy capable centerfire rifle. A couple hundred in to a nice stock and I'll already be at the low-end of the typical rifle makers... and yet I'll still have the horrific military sights.

I sure do like that thumbhole stock, though. What I need is some reject factory fit with a big splotch or crack or flaw -- something they wanna get rid of, for cheap!

 

[Smokey Joe]

Re: Glass-bedding and finishing a stock

Sevens--I know, thinking about doing this is intimidating. I thought about it long and hard before trying my first, and glass-bedded a cheap plastic stock for an SKS for practice (it was easy!)

Mauser Central www.mausercentral.com has lots of nice ideas, good website links, and helpful tips, but the stock refinishing procedure described there deserves some kind of a prize for time-consuming putziness!! P'raps you get a beautiful antique-violin-like finish from all that, but taking A WEEK for the thing to dry between coats, plus applying varnish drop by drop with my fingertip and rubbing it in--sorry, not my cup of tea! But look up the website; there is plenty of other good stuff there.

Surplus Rifles.com, www.surplusrifle.com has much saner and easier directions both for bedding a stock, and for finishing same, but when I tried it just now their server wasn't operating. The originator of that site, Jamie Magrum, had to sell it, but he "gave" it to another person who was going to keep it open for the benefit of the shooting community. I hope the non-availability is temporary.

And like I said above, Boyd's is very much used to helping newbies get squared away.

Prior to my SKS and Mauser, I'd refinished a couple of pieces of furniture & done some house painting, but except for understanding that you have to sand and sand and sand and sand to get the wood into shape for varnishing the prior experience was no special help.

For varnish, I didn't use anything special. Boyd's has "gunstock varnish," but I just went to my local hardware store and bo't a can of spray-on spar varnish, and with that and a lot of sanding my stock came out better-looking than I had any right to expect. Likewise for sandpaper--hardware store has it, in mebbe 120, 200, and 300 grit. I think that's all I used. Most hardware store paint dept's have an old coot who can advise you well on matters such as sanding and spraying on varnish. Even the big-box stores brag that they can help you with stuff like that.

Really, it ain't that hard. I urge you to consider it.

ETA--sometimes Boyd's has reject stocks--You mentioned getting a cracked one--ask 'em abt that when you call.

 

[crowbeaner]

Sevens: welcome to TFL! Glad to have you aboard. I shot many, many BBWCs and still cast them for my pals. 6.0 of Unique in the .357 case works for full pop practice. Most mfgs. put a bevel base on their bullets to make them easier to seat with less bell of the case mouth. I find them to be a PITA when sizing because the soft lube (50/50) I use gets on the base and I have to wipe each one off. If the bullets are slightly oversize from the mould the lube has a harder time getting on the base. For your 10 mm; I used to load 175 swcs over 7.5 of SR 4756 for all around practice in my Delta Elite. Be sure to seat deep enough to just barely engage the rifling with the forward edge of the driving band for best results. I just spent the day with a brand new Lyman 4 cav. # 35891 BBWC slinging bullets out of the old Mag 20. Cast about 1000 just to keep the heat on the mould. I think it's broken in now. Yeah, they still shoot. Most shooters using the HBWCs are using 2.8 of Bullseye. Anything heavier has a chance of blowing off the skirt and leaving it in the barrel. Not good. Use them with care and use care in loading them to avoid damaging them. Hope this helps. Enjoy. CB

 

[PeteQuad]

I never clean primer pockets. I guess it might be useful if I was making cartridges that were intended to be very accurate rifle rounds, but I only make handgun cartridges so I can't really see the point.

 

[Sevens]

Terrific info guys, much appreciated. I just picked up a can of Unique, so I'm going to try that load for the 357 wc's, and experiment some more with Bullseye as well since I have a supply of that, too. My first attempt at a .357 wadcutter load was a fairly tame 5.0 gr of Bullseye and a 148-grain DBBWC. Nice, consistent, but I'd like to see more pop, so I'll work from there. And as for 10mm, I'm working through a supply of 170 gr SWC right now -- my current load is 5.7 gr of Bullseye with this hard cast bullet. Seems to operate my 1006 perfectly well, perhaps a little less accurate than the Speer jacketed bullets I've used in the past. Sound like a reasonable load to you? I just picked up a can of Unique to give that a try, too, but I haven't cracked it open yet.

And I've already quit on the darn primer pockets... I'll stick with the routine for rifle rounds, but I'm going to start slacking off on the handgun ammo. It's just good to hear that others see it the same way.

Smokey Joe, those are terrific links! I've already spent an hour checking out the surplusrifle.com site -- what a gem! And looks like a real labor of love for the guys who built the site and the guy who took it over. I can get lost in lost for a couple of days for sure. I've already seen how darn easy it's going to be to come up with a scout-mount long eye-relief scope... I'll order that when I order the trigger. Probably really soon -- I'm taking this rifle (hopefully!) on a hunt in October. I'll be thrilled if I've made a good shooter out of this old orphan. Still, I just can't see myself diving head-first in a stock refinishing. I'm already staring down the barrel of a job well over my head with a rehaul of a 28-year motorcycle. One impossible job at a time! I'll keep my eyes open for a bastard stock that nobody wants, a perfect match for my "mystery" Mauser!

This place is great!