New Springfield M1A1 light strikes

[ghbucky]

Shot today with my brother, and he has a new M1A1 with I think less than 100 rounds.

I was shooting it today and it went click. I ejected the round and the primer wasn't marked. The next round went click. I ejected it and there was a very light mark on the primer.

He bought some milsurp from the range, and I never saw another issue with that ammo.

He blamed the mislurp ammo that he had ordered, but I didn't even see a mark on 1 primer.

Is there a possible issue with the rifle? Or is it hard primers on milsurp ammo?

 

[Bart B.]

Measure the case head to shoulder reference on the ammo with barely dented primers. If it's several thousandths less than unfired good ammo, that may be the problem and why it was sold as surplus. Typically, fired cases ranges a few thousandths around 1.635 inches.

 

[COSteve]

Measure the case head to shoulder reference on the ammo with barely dented primers. If it's several thousandths less than unfired good ammo, that may be the problem and why it was sold as surplus. Typically, fired cases ranges a few thousandths around 1.635 inches.

This is likely the case. As necked rifle brass indexes in the chamber off of the shoulder, if it's set too low on the case it means the round will sit too far in the camber for the firing pin to strike the primer.

In addition, as the base will not sit back against the bolt as it should. If it fires, the case will stretch the brass at the bottom as base slams back against the bolt face. This will weaken the brass as well so I'd forget about saving that brass for reloading as well.

 

[44 AMP]

This is likely the case. As necked rifle brass indexes in the chamber off of the shoulder, if it's set too low on the case it means the round will sit too far in the camber for the firing pin to strike the primer.

While this is possible, how likely is it, really? Seems to me there is a point where a case with too "short" a shoulder would be stopped by the extractor, if it is engaged. I don't think that point is beyond the reach of the firing pin, but I might be wrong.

... it went click. I ejected the round and the primer wasn't marked. The next round went click. I ejected it and there was a very light mark on the primer.

The OP ejected both rounds. No mention made of any off normal thing extracting or ejecting the rounds, so that says to me the extractor was engaged.

My guess would go the other way, instead of having a case body too short, I think a likely cause would be having a case body just a bit to long.

If the case body is too long, it could prevent the bolt from rotating into the fully locked position. This can be tough to see at a glance, and particularly if the shooting isn't looking for it.

If the bolt is not in the correct locked position, the firing pin will not strike the primer. You'll get the click from the falling hammer, but nothing else.

It is also possible (though not likely) that the blow from the hammer might be enough to drive the case enough deeper into the chamber so that the bolt fully shuts, and if it does so it makes ID'ing the actual cause more difficult.

My GUESS is that the rounds that didn't fire were just slightly too large for the M1A's chamber.

FYI, if your M1A has the GI design trigger group, it is possible to re-cock the hammer without opening the action. Its not easy, and its a bit awkward, but it can be done. Unlatch the trigger guard and swing it all the way forward like a lever action lever, and it will cock the hammer. Re-latch, then shoot.

 

[AK103K]

This is the second time in a month Im hearing this very thing.

My buddy sold some older 7.62x51 "surplus" to someone he works with that just got a new M1A not to long ago, but was having trouble finding ammo.

My buddy went with him when he shot it. First time the gun was shot too. Very first round... "click". Next round..."click", next round..."boom". Apparently it went on like that a few more rounds.

All the rounds had what appeared to be light strikes, or dimples like you get when you let the bolt close on a round but dont fire it.

We both bought a bunch of this ammo back in the late 90's, and never had any issues with it, and through a number of different guns, bolts and autos. I still have a couple of cases in my basement, hes got quite a bit more. It may be older, but its always been accurate and reliable.

My buddy was a bit puzzled and embarrassed, as he told the guy how great it was. He took the ammo back and gave him his money back.

He took the same ammo out a couple of days later, with his M1A, and a HK91. Fired 100 rounds, and every round fired without issue from both guns.

I dont think the problem is the ammo.

The last M1A I bought was back in the early 2000's, a SOCOM, and it had a number of issues. This wasnt one of them, but the gun had some function and fitment issues, and was nothing like the three others I owned prior to it, all of which were late 80's, early 90's guns.

Springfield to a turn for the worse back in the late 90's, and I had problems with both their handguns and that SOCOM at the time. I swore then I was done with them, and stuck with it, until I went back on that about a year ago, when I bought one of their new "Defender" series 1911's. I should have taken my own advice. The Defender had issues too.

Made me feel 20 years younger anyway. Im a lot happer now though.

 

[ghbucky]

Another detail on the rifle, apparently the operating rod won't come back far enough to reach the disassembly notch, so he can't fully strip it down. He took it to the store he bought it from and they couldn't get it out either, they advised him to shoot it a bunch and it would 'loosen up'. I told him to send it back, but he doesn't want to do that.

I have 2 Springfield handguns that have been flawless, I thought they were supposed to be a top drawer manufacturer.

The two light strikes I observed were indeed engaged with the extractor. They extracted with no problem.

FYI, if your M1A has the GI design trigger group, it is possible to re-cock the hammer without opening the action. Its not easy, and its a bit awkward, but it can be done. Unlatch the trigger guard and swing it all the way forward like a lever action lever, and it will cock the hammer. Re-latch, then shoot.

I didn't know this, thanks.

 

[AK103K]

Another detail on the rifle, apparently the operating rod won't come back far enough to reach the disassembly notch, so he can't fully strip it down. He took it to the store he bought it from and they couldn't get it out either, they advised him to shoot it a bunch and it would 'loosen up'. I told him to send it back, but he doesn't want to do that.

I have 2 Springfield handguns that have been flawless, I thought they were supposed to be a top drawer manufacturer.

The two light strikes I observed were indeed engaged with the extractor. They extracted with no problem.



I didn't know this, thanks.

The disassembly thing was an issue with my SOCOM as well. You had to use a small, jewelers type screwdriver, laid in the track, as wedge to get the op rod off the gun.

It wouldnt come apart without tools.

That was part of the problem with that Defender I just had as well. Unless you have a bushing wrench, or something similar, you arent getting the gun apart.

 

[HiBC]

Another possibility,you said it was new.
Did it come with full cleaning kit? If it did,it came with a bolt dissasembly tool.
If you don't know how to use it,find a Vid or an experienced person.You will deal with spring loaded plungers at the ejector and extractor retainer
Parts that fly and get lost.

A new bolt may have machining chips,bead blast media,grease,or who knows what soaking up energy. Clean it,maybe a little light oil. Check your manual for lubing cam and op rod. Was preservative removed from gas cyl before firing?

Maybe you did all this,but a new gun like an M1A should get a thorough strip,clean and lube before the first shot is fired.

 

[ghbucky]

Maybe you did all this,but a new gun like an M1A should get a thorough strip,clean and lube before the first shot is fired.

To clarify, its not my rifle, its my Brothers. He cannot break the rifle down far enough to do that work, due to the issues with the operating rod.

The disassembly thing was an issue with my SOCOM as well. You had to use a small, jewelers type screwdriver, laid in the track, as wedge to get the op rod off the gun.

Thanks for the tip, I'll pass it along.

 

[HiBC]

You are there,I am not,and its been 45 yrs or so
As I recall,the "exit notch" for the op rod to disengage is not all the way to the rear of the stroke.Seems like it might be 3/4 in or so forward,but memory is fuzzy.

As you draw the op rod back,apply steady pressure up,and out to the right.

As I said,its been 45 yrs,but study a field strip vid. Rifle on its back,belly up,pulling on the rear of the triger guard will begin removing the trigger housing group.

Then the barrel and receiver group can be removed from the stock.

I can clearly remember the process of removing the Garand recoil spring..I'm blank on the M-14,but its easily removed. Watch a vid.Remove the spring.

At this point,spring tension on the op rod is a non issue. You should be able to find the disassembly notch in the receiver with the op rod. Jiggling parts is approved and effective. Forcing parts is not.
Get familiar first,but note the bolt disassy tool is used with the bolt in the receiver. The tool compresses the ejector into the bolt face. Seems like a cleaning rod section screwed into the side of the tool to make a handle to rotate the tool counter clockwise. That cams the ejector up out of the bolt beware the detent and spring. Beware the ejector plunger and spring.
Now the firing pin can be removed from the bolt.

 

[AK103K]

Springfield, in their infinite wisdom, seems to think they know better what the specs are, or should be, and I think thats the issue here with the op rod, and probably the firing issue. Its also been an issue with a number of their handguns Ive owned over the years.

Ive been shooting M14's since the 60's, and M1A's since they first showed up, and you are right, with a "correctly built" gun, the op rod should lift off with little trouble or effort.

The only way it would come off with my SOCOM, was with that screwdriver. And that had to be done every time I shot it and cleaned it. It never loosened up as I shot the gun.

Springfield has QC issues that they really need to address.

 

[ghbucky]

OK, update:

He was able to get the op rod out, so I guess the rifle did loosen up, and he's giving the rifle a full cleaning, so now the bolt should be well cleaned.

Hopefully, that will clear up the light strikes.

 

[tango1niner]

and please, it is a Springfield M1A.

M1A1 refers to an Abrams Tank w/a 120 mm main gun.