"New"Saginaw 30 Carbines Any owners/users?
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johnwilliamson062
Moderator
http://weaponsman.com/?p=19543
I'm unaware of a new Sagnaw branded carbine. I know Inland, also a GM subsidiary, is making one in Dayton, Ohio(not in the old Inland facilities which are either all or alomost all torn down). At least they are HQ in Dayton. There has been some discussion as to whether they are actually manufacturing or even assembling anything here, but I have no substantial information either way beyond hearing no talk of hiring machinists when they opened up.
I'm unaware of a new Sagnaw branded carbine. I know Inland, also a GM subsidiary, is making one in Dayton, Ohio(not in the old Inland facilities which are either all or alomost all torn down). At least they are HQ in Dayton. There has been some discussion as to whether they are actually manufacturing or even assembling anything here, but I have no substantial information either way beyond hearing no talk of hiring machinists when they opened up.
The old facilities have been torn down.
Ron Norton is the President of Inland Manufacturing and are producing M1 Carbines (hard-cast bolts and receivers) the "original" and a "Paratrooper" model. They are also producing the "Advisor" (a 12" barreled pistol version of the M1 Carbine). They had some "teething problems" (too soft bolts) but have rectified the problem. Two "mules" (demonstrator M1 Carbines) at the 2016 SHOT show had 10,000 rounds fired through them. Then Ron stripped the bolts and receivers of all lubrication. Ron then proceeded to have two of his staff members fire approximately 1800 rounds of American Eagle ammunition through each carbine before the rifles began suffering from stoppages due to a lack of lubrication (friction)! I believe they've solved their "reliability issues".
Inland is also producing a WW2 version of the Ithaca 20" barreled shotgun ("Parkerized" with a bayonet mount). They are also producing two varieties of 1911A1 pistols.
Go to www.Inland-Mfg.com and see for yourself what they're offering.
Ron Norton is the President of Inland Manufacturing and are producing M1 Carbines (hard-cast bolts and receivers) the "original" and a "Paratrooper" model. They are also producing the "Advisor" (a 12" barreled pistol version of the M1 Carbine). They had some "teething problems" (too soft bolts) but have rectified the problem. Two "mules" (demonstrator M1 Carbines) at the 2016 SHOT show had 10,000 rounds fired through them. Then Ron stripped the bolts and receivers of all lubrication. Ron then proceeded to have two of his staff members fire approximately 1800 rounds of American Eagle ammunition through each carbine before the rifles began suffering from stoppages due to a lack of lubrication (friction)! I believe they've solved their "reliability issues".
Inland is also producing a WW2 version of the Ithaca 20" barreled shotgun ("Parkerized" with a bayonet mount). They are also producing two varieties of 1911A1 pistols.
Go to www.Inland-Mfg.com and see for yourself what they're offering.
Dfariswheel
New member
There are several new makers of M1 Carbines.
The new Inland has nothing at all to do with the original GMC Inland of WWII.
Their receivers are made from castings.
I "Think" (note the qualifier) that the new Rock Island??? is making theirs from forged steel billets, and Fulton Armory is making theirs from forged billets.
The new Inland has nothing at all to do with the original GMC Inland of WWII.
Their receivers are made from castings.
I "Think" (note the qualifier) that the new Rock Island??? is making theirs from forged steel billets, and Fulton Armory is making theirs from forged billets.
I have a pristine 1943 National Postal Meter GI M1 Carbine, Arsenal rebuilt by Red River Army Depot that I got in the early '70s. It's in 'Arsenal Rebuilt condition' with less than 100rds through it since I unpacked it from the crate in 1972. With it's original high wood stock, it's now too valuable to shoot so it, along with my Collector Grade M1 Grand are displayed only, saved for my son and his son. in 2012, I looked for a 'shooter grade' GI version, however, they were so expensive for anything not shot out and worn out, plus the fact that I would be wearing out a piece of history, that I decided to look at commercial new builds.
Auto Ordnance has been making M1 Carbines and 1927A1/M1A Thompsons for years. Their M1 Carbines were a bit spotty quality wise in the past but the last few years they've gotten to be a decent firearm by today's standards. Cast receivers like most others, they are available in 1944 configuration (no bayo lug, flip sight, early safety) for a decent representation of a WWII carbine. In addition, they are available as paratrooper versions with the folding wire stock.
They are considerably more accurate than an original and seem to hold up well. As you're starting from a new build, you're the ones who will wear them in, not untold others before you. They also include a M2 mag release so that they can use 30rd mags reliably. While they don't have the name of a WWII manufacturer (both Saginaw and Inland bought the naming rights and have nothing to do with the original manufacturers so the name is just an illusion) they are much more reasonably priced.
I bought mine new 4 years ago and added a Type II adjustable rear sight and some new Korean 15rd and 30rd mags for it. With over 2,300rds down range, it's been a very enjoyable decision. Not a bit of trouble, reliable with both the 15rd and 30rd mags, and just a joy to shoot. As I said, it's much more accurate than my GI NPM, even with it's nearly new, 1.5 muzzle barrel. I don't worry about shooting a piece of history and it loves my handload so it's reliable as snot. Great 1st centerfire for new shooters and the ladies love it's small, handy size. Great for range shooting and just fun plinking.
Bud's gunshop has them for $667.00 and AIM surplus has both the 15rd and 30rd magazines. Add a stock pouch, oiler and sling, and some ammo and you're ready to go.
Auto Ordnance has been making M1 Carbines and 1927A1/M1A Thompsons for years. Their M1 Carbines were a bit spotty quality wise in the past but the last few years they've gotten to be a decent firearm by today's standards. Cast receivers like most others, they are available in 1944 configuration (no bayo lug, flip sight, early safety) for a decent representation of a WWII carbine. In addition, they are available as paratrooper versions with the folding wire stock.
They are considerably more accurate than an original and seem to hold up well. As you're starting from a new build, you're the ones who will wear them in, not untold others before you. They also include a M2 mag release so that they can use 30rd mags reliably. While they don't have the name of a WWII manufacturer (both Saginaw and Inland bought the naming rights and have nothing to do with the original manufacturers so the name is just an illusion) they are much more reasonably priced.
I bought mine new 4 years ago and added a Type II adjustable rear sight and some new Korean 15rd and 30rd mags for it. With over 2,300rds down range, it's been a very enjoyable decision. Not a bit of trouble, reliable with both the 15rd and 30rd mags, and just a joy to shoot. As I said, it's much more accurate than my GI NPM, even with it's nearly new, 1.5 muzzle barrel. I don't worry about shooting a piece of history and it loves my handload so it's reliable as snot. Great 1st centerfire for new shooters and the ladies love it's small, handy size. Great for range shooting and just fun plinking.
Bud's gunshop has them for $667.00 and AIM surplus has both the 15rd and 30rd magazines. Add a stock pouch, oiler and sling, and some ammo and you're ready to go.
Carbines are made to shoot not hide in the corner of the safe, i take each of my vintage Carbines out for exercise on a regular basis. If i should break something there are plenty of GI parts available for repairs so don't coddle them shoot the beans out of them. If you do not have the real thing some of the clones can be shooters as well.
Yep, that's my approach exactly to my batch of various M1 Garands. The only exception is an unissued 5.7mil "collector grade" M1 that I stumbled into a few years back. It's an investment due to condition. Of the others, my favorite shooter is a Winchester that's a 1965 LEAD rebuild with mostly Winchester parts. Really smooth shooter, that one.
Most commercial "clones" of USGI military arms are problematic junk - unless you spend a lot of cash on real mil-spec parts to replace the Chi-Com parts or otherwise out-of-spec/substandard parts (even if made here) that either don't function or don't hold up to sustained shooting over time. We've seen this happen with just about every clone of a mil weapon, including carbines.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I sell those and buy two shooters!
Blanket statements like this are rarely if ever true and should be viewed skeptically at best. Case in point. Springfield makes M1As and everyone will agree that they are far from problematic junk.
Further, my AO M1 Carbine compares very favorably so far after 2,300rds. It's considerably more accurate than a pristine GI NPM (arguably the best made M1 Carbine) even with it's pristine Marlin barrel. It eats anything I feed it from 30 Carbine ball, to handloaded plated, and even my Speer 110grn JSP HD loads without a single hiccup.
It also works well in conjunction with Korean 15rd and 30rd mags with almost 100% feeding (I've had 2 failures to feed and both were the result of my failure to fully seat the mag so it's not really a failure.)
Further, we don't know the sourcing of every part in a Saginaw, Fulton Armory, etc., carbine and there's no guarantee that some are not foreign sourced. Remember, Winchesters, Browning, and other famous American companies don't make rifles anymore, the Japs make them for them.
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Thank you, COSteve. Most of these "armchair authorities" really make me laugh. They don't own an M1 Carbine, haven't owned an M1 Carbine, yet are self-proclaimed authorities on the M1 Carbine. All they seem to know is what they read on the internet.
As of late, both Inland and Auto Ordnance/Kahr seem to be producing better products. While the Inland is closer to being a "faithful" reproduction of the Carbine, rifles such as yours seem to be performing rather well.
To the devil with the naysayers! They can run down the .30 Carbine all they like; tell us that it has no "stopping power" in a life threatening situation and such nonsense. Strange, brassfetcher.com ballistic testing shows that the .30 Carbine Soft Point from a Carbine's barrel penetrates between 18 and 23 inches of gelatin, while disrupting a great deal of tissue along the way. (This works for me)!
"Well, it isn't a USGI"! And? If it shoots accurately and lasts the rest of my life, will it matter to anyone else? After I'm dead, no one will care anyway. How it performs while I'm shooting it is all that matters. Shoot the daylights out of your Auto Ordnance and be happy!
If I can't afford a USGI when I have finally saved enough money to buy my Carbine, an Inland and some high-quality mags will be in the offing. I will shoot the living snot out of the rifle, keep it clean and be prepared to drop any fool that "crosses the line". Just as the rest of these guys would with a "low-rent" M4.
I'll go walking in the hills and enjoy my M1 Carbine as long as I'm able and be happy with my purchase. Maintenance isn't that big of an impediment.
They'll get over it, (but the bad guy may not).
All they seem to know is what they read on the internet.As of late, both Inland and Auto Ordnance/Kahr seem to be producing better products. While the Inland is closer to being a "faithful" reproduction of the Carbine, rifles such as yours seem to be performing rather well.
To the devil with the naysayers! They can run down the .30 Carbine all they like; tell us that it has no "stopping power" in a life threatening situation and such nonsense. Strange, brassfetcher.com ballistic testing shows that the .30 Carbine Soft Point from a Carbine's barrel penetrates between 18 and 23 inches of gelatin, while disrupting a great deal of tissue along the way. (This works for me)!
"Well, it isn't a USGI"! And? If it shoots accurately and lasts the rest of my life, will it matter to anyone else? After I'm dead, no one will care anyway. How it performs while I'm shooting it is all that matters. Shoot the daylights out of your Auto Ordnance and be happy!
If I can't afford a USGI when I have finally saved enough money to buy my Carbine, an Inland and some high-quality mags will be in the offing. I will shoot the living snot out of the rifle, keep it clean and be prepared to drop any fool that "crosses the line". Just as the rest of these guys would with a "low-rent" M4.
I'll go walking in the hills and enjoy my M1 Carbine as long as I'm able and be happy with my purchase. Maintenance isn't that big of an impediment.
They'll get over it, (but the bad guy may not).
I carried a carbine in Korea and a modified M2 in Vietnam. There is nothing wrong with these guns when used within there design limitations. Too may guys tried to use them like a M1 Garand, and they will not do what they want of them. If you limit the use to less than 300 yards, preferably 200 yards, it will do its job as good as any rifles.
With its small size and light weight, and less chance of a missed shot traveling way beyond the target, I prefer it for back up Home Defense over an AR. These are great little SHTF guns also with a good supply of ammo.
One thing that I noticed in Korea and in Nam was the Carbines had newer type slings on them like the M1 Garand's. I searched and searched for a source of these through surplus with no luck. I did find a very good quality Aftermarket one. I tried it out on my M1 Carbine and LOVE it.
Here are some photos and details.
http://webpages.charter.net/wd4ngb/
With its small size and light weight, and less chance of a missed shot traveling way beyond the target, I prefer it for back up Home Defense over an AR. These are great little SHTF guns also with a good supply of ammo.
One thing that I noticed in Korea and in Nam was the Carbines had newer type slings on them like the M1 Garand's. I searched and searched for a source of these through surplus with no luck. I did find a very good quality Aftermarket one. I tried it out on my M1 Carbine and LOVE it.
Here are some photos and details.
http://webpages.charter.net/wd4ngb/
Welcome home, Brother!
As a "stateside" Vietnam era veteran, I applaud you for your service. I also agree with your assessment of both the M1 and M2 .30 caliber Carbines. The old lies of "it has no stopping power" or "it can't penetrate adequately to routinely kill the enemy" simply aren't true. You know it (from practical, relevant experience) and I know it through the combat history of my compatriots.
Frankly I think the "average 'Minuteman'" (read: every day armed citizen) is better served by an M1 Carbine loaded with soft points than any AR-15/M4 manufactured today. It is easier for the average person to learn to shoot, and will fill their "combat needs" far better than the high-velocity 5.56 x 45.
Again, thank you for your service and keep the faith!
As a "stateside" Vietnam era veteran, I applaud you for your service. I also agree with your assessment of both the M1 and M2 .30 caliber Carbines. The old lies of "it has no stopping power" or "it can't penetrate adequately to routinely kill the enemy" simply aren't true. You know it (from practical, relevant experience) and I know it through the combat history of my compatriots.
Frankly I think the "average 'Minuteman'" (read: every day armed citizen) is better served by an M1 Carbine loaded with soft points than any AR-15/M4 manufactured today. It is easier for the average person to learn to shoot, and will fill their "combat needs" far better than the high-velocity 5.56 x 45.
Again, thank you for your service and keep the faith!
Although a staunch supporter and collector of the M1 Carbine I can hardly agree with Capt. O that it is a better battle or urban survival than the AR series of rifles. Neither rifle is especially difficult to master the function, firing or cleaning/repair however he AR is especially easy and parts are readily available ( although in chaos parts and ammunition will be difficult to obtain for the average shooter).
Now back to the original question, does anyone have experience with a newly manufactured Carbine with a Saginaw moniker?
Now back to the original question, does anyone have experience with a newly manufactured Carbine with a Saginaw moniker?
Even though I was in RVN back in '68/'69 and was issued an M16, I rarely used it because I was packing a slightly larger caliber. Only during ground assaults on our perimeter area at Cu Chi but even then we had a lot of help too from the grunts.
As a Tank Commander, my primary weapon was a 90mm, 3.5" diameter 'shotgun' good out to 500 meters point blank range. My secondary weapon was a Ma-Deuce 50cal mg and then my personal 1911. Not much use for a puny M16.
As a Tank Commander, my primary weapon was a 90mm, 3.5" diameter 'shotgun' good out to 500 meters point blank range. My secondary weapon was a Ma-Deuce 50cal mg and then my personal 1911. Not much use for a puny M16.
The OP may be in error when it comes to the "Saginaw" moniker/namesake. James River Armory has purchased the "Rock-Ola" name, while "Inland" has been purchased (and resurrected) by Ron Norton about a mile from the site from original General Motors 'Inland' site in Dayton, Ohio.
i have yet to hear of any manufacturer purchasing the rights to the "Saginaw" name from it's original owner, General Motors.
i have yet to hear of any manufacturer purchasing the rights to the "Saginaw" name from it's original owner, General Motors.