New Models, Upgrades, Improvements?

[IanS]

Why do gun manufacturers constantly come out with new models?

S&W still makes the Sigma and the SW99 (I believe) but has since "abandoned" them in a sense for the M&P. While Beretta literally abandoned both the Cougar, 9000, and the 92FS just recently for the 90Two and PX4. Though all indications seem to point out the M&P will be a more "permanant" line for S&W but who really knows? These guns might be just a phase for them too. Gun manufacturers these days seem to come out with new models like Ford comes out with the new Expedition or Toyota their Tundra. H&K has made the P2000 and P30 in addition to the USP. SIG has come out with the Elite series with SRT trigger for the P series guns. Gone are the days when one design continued through the decades like the 1911, BHP, or even the CZ75. Sure there are dogs like the Sigma and the 9000 models in favor of other completely different designs. But what was wrong with the 92FS that Beretta came out with the 90Two? What was wrong with the P2000 or USP that H&K came out with the P30? Are these new models really better or more of a marketing ploy?

 

[David the Gnome]

In theory they should take feedback from customers and use it to improve design flaws. It's more likely that they're just trying to give you a reason to want to buy another gun from them.

 

[davlandrum]

Design improvements and new manufacturing/milling technology can be legit improvements.

Still, some "new and improved" are blatant marketing - buyer beware

 

[HighValleyRanch]

I believe much of it is marketing. How could they stay in business if everyone just kept their same old gun?
Wait...Glock has, and kept the same design for over 25 years! just like volkswagons and jeeps.

Gotta admire that about a company that has a good product and sticks with it through the years, making minor changes on the inside, but keeping the same on the outside.

I read that the bicycle industry was one of the first to promote that newest model of the year policy. The car industry quickly followed that, and it's everywhere now. I',m always tempted by those beautiul new guns, but my glock and I have been together almost 20 years, and as long as it keeps doing its job, it's always hard to justify buying another gun for the same purpose.

Please don't take this as another glock thread. Just using them as an example of how a company has kept the same design over the years, like the 1911.

 

[JWT]

They're in business to make money and to make money they need to sell new guns to a limited number of consumers.

Consumers respond to marketing that suggests something is new, better, improved, etc. New and improved might be something as simple as cosmetic changes, but if it makes shooters (the consumer) want it, the marketing 'ploy' is successful.

We all like new toys...

 

[Manedwolf]

While Beretta literally abandoned both the Cougar, 9000, and the 92FS just recently for the 90Two and PX4.

IMO, Beretta's decision to abandon the 92FS is going to bite them in the behind, since Taurus has not only continued to make the PT92, but has made improvements to it all along the way.

So for people who like the gun, the choice will be between an old, used 92FS, or a new PT92 with the ambi safety on the frame, which I think is a better design anyway.

 

[Spenser]

And somewhere along the way, they are going to lose customers. I would not be surprised if S&W at some point kills off their 3rd gen DA/SA pistols, since the rage is DAO's. Likewise with H&K.

That will be a real loss, indeed. I like da/sa with a safety and decocker, and I think the manufacturers will alienate some of us who aren't as hip to the new gun fashions as others.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Consumers respond to marketing that suggests something is new, better, improved, etc. New and improved might be something as simple as cosmetic changes, but if it makes shooters (the consumer) want it, the marketing 'ploy' is successful.

We all like new toys...

I'd like to add to already a well stated opinion. I see manufacturers' marketing strategy similar to how the automotive market operates. Americans in general are never happy with driving yesterday's model. Sure, some here can say that they're perfectly content on driving their '78 F150 every day to work still, but most just have to have the latest and greatest. I wouldn't necessarily call it a marketing "ploy". I call it "giving the kid what it wants whether he needs it or not". And I don't hold it against any manufacturer. The competition is heating up. More models to choose from than ever before and we're taking the bait. Not that I'm complaining or anything...

 

[BillCA]

It's a little bit of marketing -- new products generate news and interest -- as well as attempting to lure new customers by "improving" existing models from time to time.

Gotta admire that about a company that has a good product and sticks with it through the years, making minor changes on the inside, but keeping the same on the outside.

Yup... I gotta agree...

The S&W K-Frame .38 revolver was new in 1899 and is still with us today, in an updated and much improved form. The N-Frames, especially the .44 and .45 models continue to sell reasonably well. Their .357 models seem to be increasing in value now too.

Consumers respond to marketing that suggests something is new, better, improved, etc. New and improved might be something as simple as cosmetic changes, but if it makes shooters (the consumer) want it, the marketing 'ploy' is successful.

We expect miracles, thanks to Madison Ave. advertisers. Every year we're bombarded with "New & Improved" laundry detergents, deodorants, toothpastes, et al. Guns undergo small improvements or "refinements" as a rule. Guns that don't sell will be dropped from the catalog. The ones that do sell steadily will be retained.

The marketing hype always trys to convince us that "new" equates to "better" and that successful, handsome, sexy people are the ones buying the "new" product. Guns are an item that should be counted in the "durable goods" product category. If you only want one, you only need to buy one and maintain it to last a lifetime.

S&W recognized some time ago that small runs of unique guns were often good sellers if they had the right desireable features. This market peters out after a while though and when the model is discontinued, the existing ones become sought after models (e.g. 696 or a 3" M29).

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Wait....are we supposed to talk about wheel guns on this side of the hill?

Just kidding BillCa, that's a good point. The revolvers have stayed pretty much the same without so much window dressing.
Wait till they come out with plastic revolvers!

 

[Shane Tuttle]

And all due respect to revolvers...

...how many LE agencies use them as their primary weapon?

 

[BlondieStomp]

steering back on course I think the truth lies somewhere in between on improvements vs hype/advertising/gimmickry

The M&P is a good gun, especially in comparison to the Sigma. Is it that much better, or even better at all, compared to the SW99? I don't know, but I would prefer it to a lot of other smith autos.

Beretta 90two is butt ugly. If they're discontinuing the 92 legitimately for that stinker I think it's a big mistake. The PX4 is a good gun with a different design altogether.

HK p30 - meh. No strong feelings. I like the p2000 and the USP.

Sig 250- I don't like polymer sigs, they've never felt as well made to me as the alloy or stainles framed models. So eh.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I think you need an option for "Both" on the poll, as I think you see both, depending on the manufacturer and product line.

 

[IanS]

I think you need an option for "Both" on the poll, as I think you see both, depending on the manufacturer and product line.

I purposely left that out. Sure, there can always be exceptions but I wanted to gauge how overall, people leaned one way or the other.

 

[BillCA]

Just kidding BillCa, that's a good point. The revolvers have stayed pretty much the same without so much window dressing.
Wait till they come out with plastic revolvers!

You mean like THIS Polymer Revolver?

(it's Russian. Meaning it's big and ugly.)

 

[HighValleyRanch]

thanks Bill!

russian and ugly....you mean like my new IZH?

Thanks for the link, learn something new everyday.
I won't lose any bets in the future!

Wonder if they'll get approved on the CA DOJ list any time soon?