New in need of an education in rifles

[Viper99]

Hello All,
I know that I want to buy a Ruger SR22 or M&P 15-22 for fun. But later on I would like to add another military style rifle of a larger caliber.
No more than $600 to 800 for that one.

However, I am totally confused by the caliber that I might want because there are so many. 223, 9mm, 5.56, 7.62, etc.

Can someone educate me on what these calibers are normally used for and what caliber is kind of the "standard" when it comes to rifles.

Thank you for your time

 

[thesheepdog]

There is no set standard for a Rifle caliber.

If you're wanting a Military style rifle, there are many options and it's going to be up to you to decide what fits your bill.

American made Military rifles that are available to civilians:
M1A
M14
M1 Carbine
AR/M16
1903 Springfield
Barrett M82 A1
M1 Garand
M24
ACR

Imports:
AK-47
AK-74
AK-103
Galil
RPK
AUG
FAL
G3-A3
PTR-91
Enfield


That's all on the top of my head.

Here are some of the NATO calibers of the world:

7.62x51mm (used in the M240B, M24 and M14 EBR weapons, as well as many others)
5.56X45mm (used in the M16/M4, M249, G36, AUG, Galil, AK-103)
12.7X99mm (used in the Barrett M82 A1, M2 MG)
9x19mm (used in the Beretta 92FS)


There are many, many other calibers and rifles out there that are fully capable of being "military".

I just suggest you look around and begin reading some history on fighting firearms.

 

[horseman308]

DISCLAIMER: If you already know all this, disregard.

I guess a good place to start is to recognize that the term "caliber" refers specifically to the diameter of the bullet which a firearm can fire. European rifles typically measure bullets in metrics - using millimeters; American rifles usually measure them in inches (the English system). Next, because most (not all) militaries use NATO-standardized ammo, their ammo will be often described in millimeters.

Now, having said that, it becomes important to realize that people often interchange metric and English terms for ammo, even if the bullets are the same actual size. A couple of examples:
-a .223 is in inches and a 5.56 is in millimeters, but the bullets are the same size. The "military" style rifles they are most often fired from are AR-15s, M-4s, etc.
-a .308 is in inches and a 7.62 is in millimeters, but the bullets are the same size. The "military" style rifles they are most often fired from are are M1A's, FAL's, and AK-47s. Follow?

Okay, part 2, briefly. Even though people talk about "caliber" when they say .30-06, .223, etc., what they most often mean is "cartridge chambering." Here's a brief example. A .30-06 hunting rifle and an FAL battle rifle both shoot a bullet that is .308 inches in diameter. However, the .30-06 has a longer brass case than the cartridge used in the FAL. So it's really important to know not just what diameter bullet is being fired, but what cartridge the rifle is chambered in.

Where it gets the most confusing is that ammo that was originally designated by NATO for military use has often made the transition to the civilian market, undergone subtle, but important changes, and should not be used in "military" (auto-loading) rifles. An example - is that a .308 winchester cartridge and a 7.62 NATO cartridge are VERY similar. Both shoot the same diameter bullet. Both have a case that appears identical (they're not identical, but look that way at first). The differences are mostly internal - the weight of the bullet, the amount and type of gunpowder in the case, and a few small but important dimensions to the case. Also, the civilian market of .308 winchester cartridges is very large, while there is only 1 real 7.62 NATO cartridge. You can fire a 7.62 NATO round from a bolt action rifle. However, because "military" style rifles are designed to shoot only the NATO round effectively, you should not fire a .308 winchester cartridge from a military rifle.

I write this only as a primer of sorts and an example, and I hope it's useful. You should start by choosing a cartridge based on what you will do with it. There is a ton of important information - just do some googling and read a lot. The details are what is important.

 

[kraigwy]

But later on I would like to add another military style rifle of a larger caliber.
No more than $600 to 800 for that one.

That just screams "CMP M1 Garand"

$495 for Service Grand to $1500 for M1D Siper Version (Rifle only, no scope)

Check them out:

http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

 

[Quentin2]

Of the .22s I would suggest the S&W M&P15-22 or Colt M4 .22LR over the Ruger SR22 if you want something that really looks like a current US military rifle.

As far as a military centerfire, well as you can see above there're lots of choices. You really need to some homework to narrow it down to a caliber and/or rifle. What exactly do you want to do with it? And do you want inexpensive ammo, easy to find ammo, soft recoil, hard hitting power, long range, hunting (what game), etc.

 

[smoakingun]

maybe if you told us what you wanted to use the centerfire rifle for, we could be of more help.

if your goal is simply to turn money into noise, then cost becomes an issue, and the only "military type" rifles that are still reasonably inexpensive to shoot are the sks, the psl, and the ak, assuming that a semi-auto is what you're after.

as to caliber selection in general, people could expound for hours about whats best for what and you still would probably be lost, the best education comes from time, through books, experience, and folks you trust that know more than you

 

[Viper99]

This rifle will be used mostly for target practice and familiarize myself with rifles. At the same time I want something that I may want to keep for a long time.

However, I might want to use it to hunt later on as there are a lot of deers around where I live.

I seems from the responses that I have a lot to learn.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Art Eatman]

In my own opinion, the absolute best way to learn about rifles is the basic beginner's deal: A bolt-action .22 rimfire with iron sights.

Browse a gunstore's selection for one which fits your body dimensions.

Read up on "sight picture". Then work on the coordination of holding that sight picture as you press the trigger.

After you've gained proficiency, then is the time to consider adding a scope sight if you wish.

.22 rimfire ammo is the least expensive of all, so you can get a lot of trigger time for not much money. And a halfway-decent .22 will last through your lifetime and your kids' and grandkids'.

Never be in a hurry to spend money. It goes out much faster than it comes in. And they're not going to quit making rifles anytime soon...

 

[tirod]

One item many get mixed up is that manual action rifles and self loading rifles have very little in common. They function in completely different ways, and what a manual action gun does is often inefficient and even substandard for a self loader.

Just ammo alone is a good start: a manual gun will just about shoot anything loaded in the caliber. A self loading action requires enough gas propulsion to work the action, or frequent stoppages and frustration result. Unfortunately, that exact thing happens all the time, a box of inexpensive light loads is shot in a gun that needs a minimum amount of gas pressure, and doesn't get it. It's not the guns fault, but the owner anoints it a complete POS.

Shoot semi autos with good ammo, you get good results. Scrimp and you get what you paid for. Nobody runs 400 hp crate motors on kerosene, but look around, some AR shooters buy the cheapest junk ammo they can and then complain about the results.

Military calibers are tax payer supported and can be cheap, what's interesting is that when anyone steps away from that assuming a commercial round is, too. Gnashing of teeth and wailing about "pricey expensive" ammo is really a public declaration of "I don't really know what's up and bought into this without thinking." These days, nobody will admit a mistake, but they will go out of their way to blame someone else.

It's business, this stuff is just about selling you something, what's a real bother is that testosterone poisoning affects the brain and shuts down the analytical side. If someone is pressing all the macho buttons, well, buyer beware.

 

[Drummer101]

This is one of the best threads on this forum.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

FWIW, I'd recommend that you take an NRA Basic Rifle course or attend an Appleseed event and that your first rifle is a .22LR, either bolt or semi-auto (I prefer bolt for brand-new shooters but a s-a loaded with 1 round in the mag at a time for initial practice is ok...this allows you to focus on shooting fundamentals without worrying about the complexity of the rifle and maximizes safety).

I'm biased but proper training from an instructor who knows what they're doing is the best way to go. I might note that I'm giving the NRA basic course to my 7-y/o grand nephew with a junior sized bolt action rifle, but I did let him shoot a S&W MP 15-22. He's doing great!

Once you have a better idea of what you're doing, you'll be in a better position to decide on a centerfire rifle. Both Art and Kraig offered excellent advice, above.

FH
NRA Cerified Rifle Instructor

 

[smoakingun]

if you are completely new to rifles, try this.

find a .22 you like, bolt rifle, semi auto, pump, or lever. (a magazine fed auto would be my choice)

without purchasing any ammo, take the rifle home, read the instructions, handle the rifle, become familiar with all of its controls.

now go purchase a few hundred rounds of ammo (a "brick" of 500 rounds is about 18 bucks a wal mart)

I am going to make an assumption here, I am going to assume that you have no or next to know experience with firearms of any type

visit the nra website, ou should be able to find an nra basic rifle course. If not, then visit appleseed.org. find an event near you, they will teach you to shoot.
If there is no appleseed, contact a local rifle range to see if something is available. If nothing is available, find a friend that knows rifles, or, and this is going out on a limb, maybe someone from the forum lives near you and would be willing to help.

If you attend some kind of event, speak up and let the people there know that this is all new to you, the instructors will be glad to help, and will know to keep an eye on you

forget about a centerfire for now, wait untill you know a little more to make a decision about type and caliber

 

[smoakingun]

and by magazine fed, I mean detachable, not a tube magazine

 

[Viper99]

if you are completely new to rifles, try this

I am new to rifles but not new to shooting as I own several pistols that I shoot regularly. I also own 20+ year old Mossberg shotgun that has never been fired. (my old range did not allow you to shoot shotguns)

These rifles will just become part of my small collection but since I am thinking of buying only 2 at this point, I want to make sure that I get the ones that make the most sense.

I admit to being more attracted to semi-auto military style rifles at this point. First I want a .22 and once familiar either a 5.56 or 7.62.

Thanks to the poster who explained the calibers and to all others who have answered. It makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Alden]

Viper, my advice is to buy a bolt action .22 and a bolt action .243 or .270. You can learn on the .22, and you can also use it for small game hunting. The .243 or .270 would be your deer gun.

Put a Redfield rimfire scope on the .22, and a Redfield 3-9x 40mm scope on the deer gun.

Savage makes excellent and affordable bolt rifles in every caliber commonly used.

There. Now go do it.

 

[Brenten]

Viper, if you are going to buy 2 rifles, I would make one a ruger 10-22, it is tons of fun, will teach you the basics and will not break your wallet. It is a lifetime keeper rifle and a great hand me down.

As for a second rifle since the ruger is a semi auto, I would probably pick another action type like bolt or lever. However, someone above mentioned M1 garand which you can never go wrong with. A good lever action in 30-30 is also a fun gun. As for bolt actions, sky is the limit, but I would stick with an economical easily found caliber, like 223, 308 or 30-06. You can find those anywhere and they don't break the bank. A 308 or 30-06 is good enough to hunt just about anything on this continent except the big brownies. Tikka makes a nice short barreled bolt action scout rifle that you can hunt with.

hope this helps.