New hand loader

[308Loader]

Hi every one.
Recently I decided to start reloading for my .308 win. I have put together and fired 80 rounds now with great success. I cant believe the difference in consistency. Both rifles shoot WAY tighter groups with the hand loads vs cheep box ammo. So I plan to continue reloading. I am trying to refine my process for case prep and reloading. Any good advise for a new guy?

Right now I
clean case with rag
de-prime
Tumble 30 to 90 min in lizard litter and 1/2 cup of rouge/walnut from lyman
case lube with spray and ziplock
F.L.R.S.
cordless drill case trim to 2.006 +/- .001
de-bur and camphor
inspect and prime
charge with powder
seat to the line
crimp?

 

[pathdoc]

Crimps are not required in a bolt gun for ammo that's going to the range only, May be worthwhile for hunting ammo or self loaders. Opinion is divided. Try half a box each way and see what YOU get by way of results. You seem to be doing all the right things so far, given the improvements you report. Don't crimp bullets without a cannelure (crimp groove).

Some advise a flash hole uniforming tool, and while I have one, I'm not sure it's worthwhile for a rifle and shooter combination that isn't producing MOA groups or better to start with. If target shooting is your thing, go for it. Case neck turning and concentricity tools are the last word, and IMHO not for the casual user.

 

[Bart B.]

Seems to me you're doing a lot of the right stuff; here's some suggestions:

Measure your fired cases' head to shoulder length then set the FL die to bump their shoulders back .002" for best accuracy and long case life.

No case prep is needed unless you shoot your stuff no worse than 1/4" at 100 yards.

You don't need to crimp case mouths on bullets.

Case lengths from 2.000" to 2.010" are fine; they don't need to all be exactly the same.

Be sure to clean the case lube off sized cases before putting primers and powder in them.

What sizing and seating dies are you using?

 

[308Loader]

ok so, uniform flash hole before re-prime. Short tumble after re-size. don't trim unless over 2.015?

I am using lee single stage press and lee die

last loads were imr 4895 with 37.7 gr, rem 9.5 large rifle primer. pmc and ppu brass with hornady 3037 bt-fmj 150 gr.

 

[Bart B.]

No need to uniform flash holes.

Clean sized cases without tumbling. A rag with naptha on it is good.

Use at least 41 grains of 4895 with 150-gr. bullets. Otherwise, case head separation may happen if full power 45-gr loads are used. 37 grains won't fully expand the case against the chamber.

 

[Tipsy Mcstagger]

Since you have said that you are using different brands of cases, might I say that what charge works in one brand of case might not yield the same results in another, especially once you approach max loads. There is usually an internal volume difference due to thicker/thinner brass. I'm relatively new to this (less than two years) but I have swapped cases and used the same charge and the result was pierced primers, and powder was measured to the 1/10th of a grain, and NOT near book max for that powder. Also, temperature can make a big difference in some powder's pressure and fps. What works on a cold day might be unsafe on a hot day with certain powders. I didn't destroy anything, but I was surprised to learn what caused some problems, maybe it can help you.

 

[308Loader]

so full length re size vs neck size. I have read that f.l.r.s. over works the brass. any thoughts? also how do you neck size only? is that some other die to buy?

also what is the difference in using just large rifle primers vs magnum rifle primers as it relates to .308win loading. Something I read says I would get a more complete and consistent burn with mag primers.

sorry, a lot of questions.

 

[Bart B.]

Don't worry about asking questions; they're good ones. That's a sign of intelligence.

Neck only sizing with dies doing only that to fired cases has long been thought to give best accuracy and long case life. Proper setup and use of full length sizing dies has proved more accurate and equally long case life for decades. Most benchrest competitors switched to full length sizing a few years ago. Redding or RCBS bushing ones are good with bushing diameter .002" smaller than a loaded round neck diameter.

Standard primers work fine in .308 cases. Tulammo ones are popular with competitors. Seat them deep so they'll fire consistantly.

Here's good info on reloading the .308:

http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/sierra308Win.pdf

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

In the above link, the quote below clipped from it is wrong:

.308 Win vs. 7.62x51--The Straight Scoop
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi.

That clip should be headed: "The Crooked (or Wrong) Scoop."

Both cartridges have virtually the same pressure. The 7.62's max was set at 50,000 copper units of pressure (CUP) by Frankford Arsenal. Winchester used a slightly different CUP system and set their .308 Winchester's peak pressure at 52,000 CUP. Both labeled it in pounds per square inch (PSI) because that's the way everyone did back then. When electronic strain gauges were used that measured in PSI units, the confusion started. Check out pages 16 and 21 in the following and note SAAMI's pressure numbers for both CUP and PSI for the .308 Winchester cartridge:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf

 

[308Loader]

Thanks Bart, you have ben very helpful and I appreciate your wisdom. Last new guy question. How do I know how far to seat a bullet without crimp marks. Picked up some nosler 30cal/308" spritzer 180 gr. p/n 30180 for super cheep. Want to load some for this weekend but not shure how far to seat them. I have load data for this projectile I think, but seating too far is a major concern. do I go same depth as the 150's ive been loading? This projectile is much longer than the 150gr fmj-bt I have been loading. where do I start?

 

[Bart B.]

Seat 'em so cartridge overall length is 2.800" long or 1/16th inch shorter than magazine length, whichever is shortest, but don't crimp them in place. Seat one in an empty case to ensure it works both in the magazine then lets the bolt close easily on it when chambered.

Ensure your seating die's backed up a little so it doesn't crimp the case mouth. They should be both functional in charging the magazine then loading from it as well as quite decently accurate.

 

[RC20]

Clean sized cases without tumbling. A rag with naptha on it is good.

Using any chemicals you should wear protective gloves. Yea I know I didn't for years but its a more knowing age and can same you grief on a lot of fronts (Hoppes 9 any solvents, copper cleaner you name it)

Nitrile is needed as chemicals dissolve latex.

I am using cheap Ace Hardware ones, called Soft Scrub, 50 to a box fits all sizes.

Good for use with any lawn chemicals as well.

ps: we didn't have ear muffs or bicycle helmets when I was a kid but I started using muffs in my 20s and for sure the helmet now too. Old dogs can learn to change.

 

[308Loader]

ok, so I've been reading some more. Is it necessary to full length resize once fired brass if it is fired from my gun? Or do I only resize when they are getting sticky in the chamber.

 

[Bart B.]

Full length size your fired brass? Yes. Best accuracy, ease of functioning and decent case life happens. But measure your fired cases head to shoulder distance then resize them so the shoulder's a couple thousandths shorter. A little more will shorten case life. A whole lot more will end up with the case heads starting to separate with only a few reloads on it; a fine crack will appear around the case about 1/10th inch in front of the extractor groove.

Do you have a case headspace gauge; RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady LNL gauge?