New guy intro and Smith "K" frame question

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oldcars

New member
Hey all, I searched google for "revolver forum" and this was the best one I found! I am 26 years old, live in eastern Oregon and i'm computer-challanged!! the revolvers I currently own are;
Smith&Wesson #65 4" barrel
Smith&Wesson#10 4" barrel (girlfriends)
Ruger service six 2 3/4" barrel
Ruger vaquero 44 mag 4 5/8" barrel
Colt frontier 22lr 4 5/8" barrel

My question is this; they say that "K" frame smiths will not handle 357 loads forever, but about how many rounds of full-house 357 will it take to cause damage? I know that the variables are infinate but are we talking 1000.....10,000.....?????.....Anyone?
 
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samsmix

New member
They (whoever "they" are) used to say an M-19 or M-66 would go about 500 rounds before accuracy suffered much. At 1000 rounds of full house .357s they were usually in need of re-timing, a task best done at the factory.
 
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skeeter1

New member
Welcome to TFL. I don't think there's any definative answer to your question, but lots of cops have shot thousands of .357s through a K-frame (e.g., M66) without a problem. The M66 that I had but sold to a friend had about 500 rounds of Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnums through it without a hitch.

After all, they chamber J-frames for .357Mag now, so I wouldn't be too worried about a K-frame.
 
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samsmix

New member
Say, don't they heat treat them differently than they used to?

I mean, my my own M-15 .38 hails from 1979 and has a pinned barrel. Smith and Wesson says +P's are a no-no. If you have a newer M-15, Smith clear them for an unlimited diet of +P ammo.

There may be no easy answer, save calling the S&W factory
 
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18DAI

New member
Hi, welcome to TFL. I don't know "them", and based on what "they" say, I wouldn't listen to them.

I've got a 19-4 with almost 12000 rounds through it. About 3500 of those are 158 grain 357's. The 19-4 locks up tight, has no endshake, and very little erosion in the forcing cone. It is also the most accurate handgun I own. I shoot IDPA matches with it.

I also have several pre lock, model 66's. One is a former Chicago PD trade in. Who knows how many rounds through it. I know I put 2000 rounds of Mag Tech 158 grain 357 through it in the last few years. The 66 times perfectly, and has the slightest play in the cylinder. The forcing cone shows some erosion.

The only thing that will hurt your model 65, is shooting hot 125, or 110 grain 357's through it. They peen the forcing cone, causing cracks, and the hot plasma, cuts the topstrap, leading to frame stretching. Shoot 158 grain 357's and your grand children will be shooting that model 65.

Ignore all the "weak K-frame" nonsense on the internet, take what "they" say, with a large grain of salt, and enjoy your revolvers. Regards 18DAI.
 
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Hal

New member
The only thing that will hurt your model 65, is shooting hot 125, or 110 grain 357's through it. They peen the forcing cone, causing cracks, and the hot plasma, cuts the topstrap, leading to frame stretching. Shoot 158 grain 357's and your grand children will be shooting that model 65.
Click to expand...
Bears repeating.....

If you look at the forcing cone of the K frame, you'll notice a small cut out at the top to allow it to fit into the frame. That slightly weakens it.

If you're going to run .357's through it, stick to the 158 gr bullet and avoid the 125 gr loads. Lot's of K's have run tens of thousands of 158 gr .357 loads.

(I notice you have a .44mag - that pretty much eliminates any need to run .357's through the K. Anything the .357 can do - the .44 can do better and with a whole lot less wear and tear on the gun.)
 
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blume357

New member
Ditto on what Hal above said

From a personal perspective... go out and buy a box of 125gr and 158gr along with 38special wad cutters... shoot all three in your pistol and you'll find out exactly why you don't want to practice with 125gr 357magnums. I hate 'em. Just too darn hard on me... I would much rather shoot the 158s on occassion and practice with the 38s... the big deal with 158 grain rounds was someones idea that they 'overpenetrated'. At least this is what I read recently.... too many cooks in the kitchen trying to decide what is 'best'. Think about it? In a bad situation where you absolutely need to stop a bad guy... the more holes the better... if the round goes through...especially a 158gr 357 magnum hollow point... that's TWO holes. And the second one is going to be BIG and take some of the bad guy with it. I say two holes are better than one anyday.
 
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salvadore

Moderator
I've had Ks and Js .357s and currently shoot full boat 173 lymans in my 5" 60. 100 or so, it's not that much fun, but the gun isn't shooting loose, nor did the k frames I owned.
 
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samsmix

New member
Having read all that 18Dai & Hal had to say, I can tell you that I'm sold.

It only makes sense. Most issues were had with police 19s and 66s. The 125gr load was seen, by some, as the answer to overpenetration, and may have been the cause of the problem.

As to those 110gr loads. WHY? I mean really, this is what we have 9mm guns for. They do the light bullets about as well, and with less blast, flash, and reloading. Why neuter your gun?


Of course it's all much ado about nothing. If you shoot a BG with a .38, .357 mag or sig, .380, 9mm, .40, .41, .45....whatever, he is going down. This assumes you hit him right. Fail to place your shots correctly and a rifle may not help you. I personally do think that there is something to this buisiness of overpenetration. It's not that I may be sued later, but that I may inadvertantly shoot someone who did not need shot. If that hit proves fatal on say...an 8 year old, I do not want to carry that baggage around with me for the rest of my life. So based on this I usually do not pack 158 grainers in city limits.

FOR THOSE WHO DO USE 158gr LOADS for defense: Please DO NOT think that I am trying to tell you that you are wrong. I just don't happen to use them myself. I do kill deer with 'em though. I think they are a lousy load in city limits, but in a rural juristiction (Highway Patrol for instance) I think they are the .357 load of choice.

Sorry if I got off topic.
 
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Charshooter

New member
I had a good buddy who had a model 19 and swore by it as a very accurate revolver and I saw him shoot. He shot it all the time and never had a problem.

I have always liked the model 27 or 28 better mainly because it fits my hand better.
 
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dogngun

New member
I would not worry about any K frame and current factory .357 magnum loads.
I also would not worry about any K frame .38 special and +P loads...there is so little pressure difference with factory loaded ammo that these is no problem.
I have a 5 screw Model 14 .38 Target Masterpiece, and use it to hunt groundhogs using +P ammo. It is as tight as when it was new, ov er 50 years ago.


Welcome.
You might also want to try the Smith & Wesson Forum, listed on Google.

Mark
 
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samsmix

New member
Dogngun,

You are probably right. Smith says +Ps are a no-no, but I shoot a few and carry 'em, too. I keep waiting for a perfect sub-30 yard broadside on a white-tail doe. I wanna put my duty (he he: DOODY!) loads to the test. I do not hunt with this gun, but put it on when I hunt WT with a shotgun. One day I'll get my wish, and hopefully a recovered 125gr golden saber bullet to show the guys at work.
 
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Thunderhawk88

Moderator
I was told many, many years ago by S&W that the K-frame, especially my 19-5 will last forever on a diet of 80% .38spec/20% .357mag.. The big fear here was the cutting of the top-strap and cracking of the forcing cone. Staying away from 125gr. .357mag. rounds will eliminate that problem.
The only failure I have ever had was a broken hammer nose (firing pin).
 
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Webleymkv

New member
Some of the earlier 66's had problems because of the stainless steel. The stainless expanded more than the carbon steel when it heated up (particularly in the area of the gas ring) and could tie the gun up in extended shooting sessions. The problems were fixed in later 66's, I've never had a problem with my M66-2.
 
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