New gun owners . . .

Prof Young

New member
Was at a Rural King today looking at ammo prices. Lady walks up next to me and says something to the effect of "Aren't they all pretty. I wish I could take more home." Turns out she was talking about the firearms. We had a brief conversation wherein she revealed she'd recently bought a 22, a 9mm and an AR15. The telling statement was "And they are all still in the box." Really?

I kick myself now that I didn't pursue that conversation a bit more. I think these were her first guns ever. I should have asked what brought that on?

Also, I read a piece, I think it was in the WSJ, about a rash of gun thefts in larger cities, ostensibly due to first time gun owners being careless with where they leave their guns.

One more, about two years ago, I was at my range, and a guy from my church was there picking up a Sig Sauer Mosquito. (Yeah, I know it a crappy gun.) Anyway, once in a while when I see him I ask if he has shot the mosquito yet. So far the answer is "no."

While I tend to think the increase in gun ownership is a good thing, there may be a thing or two askew as well.

Like my buddy from my writer's group. He had some experience with guns from his childhood. He bought an AR-7 (The survival gun.) and I helped him learn how to shoot it. I think in our next conversation I'll ask why.

Any thoughts or experiences surrounding the "new gun owner" surge?

Life is good.
Prof Young
 

BornFighting88

New member
I think about these things a lot. I may even be over thinking it. My default line at the end of my thought patterns all lead to "Who am I to tell anyone what to spend their money on?" I like guns, one of my students really enjoys custom pens and other writing equipment, a good friend of mine is misled in life into liking Ford vehicles.... but who the heck am I to dictate what they spend THEIR money on??

On the other hand... Could these new gun buyers that have no interest in actually using them be ahead of us on the curve of a "commodity market"?? They have the gun, someone else WANTS the gun, and only the market can set the price, no?? Holding out in case some other commodity tanks??

Maybe heirloom for young one? I am of both schools of thought. Number A, they are machines and tools, to be used as such. Feed it a box of shells, aim it intentionally at your target, and make it go bang!!

Number B, why not save marvels of engineering like this for future posterity to see?? My daughter will be getting my prized 1911 when my time comes. I hope she keeps it as an heirloom for future generations.

Thoughts, professor?
 
Prof Young said:
Any thoughts or experiences surrounding the "new gun owner" surge?
It doesn't apply to everyone, but I suspect that many new owners either don't know where they can shoot, or are afraid to go to a commercial range and embarrass themselves in front of a bunch of other people. So they buy a new gun, bring it home, breathe a sigh of relief, and tell themselves they're armed.

Each case and each person will be unique, but I think we "old hands" might be able to help by volunteering to accompany such newbies to a shooting range and help them to become acquainted with their new guns. This probably holds true more for women, but there are some guys who may have even more of a problem because, let's face it, guns are macho and what real man would want to show up at a range and not know how to shoot his new MegaBlaster X23-Mod IV?
 

Scorch

New member
I just had a similar conversation the other day with a customer. He was commenting on how there are so many new gun owners, but he doesn't see a lot more shooters at the range. He grew up in a gun family, hunting and shooting his whole life, and he doesn't see the increase in ownership evident in increased users at the range or in the field. I replied that a lot of new gun owners just want a gun for protection and have no intention of becoming "gun people". They put their guns in a safe place and keep the magazine loaded, but seldom if ever take it out to the range and shoot. I see quite a few guns that people have owned for a few years and want to put new sights and accessories on that have never been fired. I have cleaned dozens of unused guns over the past 5 years that had varnished so bad they could not be used. It's almost like collecting Barbie dolls, they own them but never play with them. Like guns are their assets and they don't want to devalue them by firing them. I mean, I'm happy more people are buying guns, but they are just paperweights if you don't get them out and warm them up every now and then.
 

2123

New member
With the increase of crime and civil unrest here in our country, many are purchasing firearms just to make sure they have one.

Many are 1st time purchasers! Little to no knowledge or training on how to use them. They figure that'll come later.

Anyways, this country of ours is as messed up as I've ever seen it, and I'm 67. It's actually pathetic.

I'm just glad that I'm as old as I am, and don't have 30 or 40 yrs. left. I feel badly for those young families with children that are just starting out.
 

stinkeypete

New member
Going to the range without any training is exactly why my private club is so hard to get into. People are not born knowing gun safety. Just like they are not born knowing how to play guitar. That doesn’t stop them.

When I was a kid, my dad taught me. Over many outings. When I was 12, I took the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Hunter Safety Class, so I could get a hunting license. I was excited to go, and proud to be there. It was taught after school, over 6 weeks, by our shop teacher. Out of 400 kids, I bet only 20 of us took the class.

Back in those days, we could walk out the back door and walk through the corn fields to the old quarry, and shoot tin cans. Across the road from my high school, you could squirrel hunt. Young people have more important things to be learning in this modern age.

When I bought my first accurized 1911, I asked the gunsmith if he would give me shooting lessons. He looked stunned. “What for? No one has ever asked me that before!”

“You’re a NRA rated High Master and retired Army Marksmanhip Unit member and armorer, why the hell would I not want to learn from you?”

He told me to get Gil Hebard’s book, read the AMU pistol manual, and taught me the most important lessons about 1911s in about 15 minutes.

I believe that everyone should get training as they begin using firearms. Later, as we specialize, the guys that don’t get coaching are the ones we beat in competition.

I got help with nra target shooting, cowboy action, skeet. This summer, I’ll have someone give me pointers on trap, my new idea.

But the fella that doesn’t want to learn.., won’t.

I’ll help teach anyone what I know, but they have to ask for help. No point in hurting their feelings, telling them they are holding the guitar upside down.

Ps.. some national organizations stopped catering to sportsmen and started making money by ginning up donations about 25 years ago. Then they started buying themselves boats. I want no part of that.
 
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seanc

New member
I suspect that many new owners either don't know where they can shoot, or are afraid to go to a commercial range and embarrass themselves in front of a bunch of other people. So they buy a new gun, bring it home, breathe a sigh of relief, and tell themselves they're armed.

^This! Embarrassment is a high bar to get over.

Yesterday at the county range, on 1 side, I had a young guy with 2 young ladies. It was clear his firearm training was from watching movies. He was "training" the young ladies next to me, shooting off-hand and that muzzle was all over the place. After he finally figured out how to load his .22LR AR, I had to step out of my lane and point out the 4 rules and get them to point down range and tried to get them to at least fix their stances, as they were going to shooting the AK next. The young guy also had a brand new semi-auto shotgun. All of these guns were brought in sans-case and were brand spanking new. Luckily 2 of the RSOs came by and offered instruction (1 is a cop and the other is retired army ranger). The RSO's got them to benchrest the rifles to get them zeroed, but the young guy then went back to off-hand shooting, blasting the low berm once and the 1st high berm once that I saw. When they were done, they were then headed over to the pistol range.

On the other side of me was a late 30-ish guy and his wife in 2 bays. He wasn't on paper and asked if I could spot for him. Brand new high end AR pistol with forward grip, high dollar light setup, BUIS, 1-6x Sig scope (which was awesome!). I pulled his bolt and tried to show him how to bore site and got him on paper (he of course had his target stand out at 100). Luckily the bore sighting got him within 3" of aim. He also had a high-dollar spotting scope. Even his rifle cases were high dollar. Funny that his ammo was cheap reloads :). His group wasn't spectacular, but I told him with that setup, only guys on the internet are "1 MOA-all-day" and he should be happy he's on paper. He said "shooting and kicking doors down is my job". Whatever. It was nice to see such a nice setup, even if it wasn't mine. When leaving, his wife collected all their brass and dumped it in my bag, so we were both happy.
 

chadio

New member
What new gun owners might be thinking:

"get in before they close the door"

I know that people in WA state are doing this with magazines. After July 1st, it will be illegal to buy or sell a magazine with a capacity over 10 rounds.

Wow, won't we all feel safe after July 1st :D
 

603Country

New member
Over the years I’ve taught a lot of people how to shoot - kids, housewives, single women. They were happy to get some instruction and safety guidance. The neighbor’s kid was over here yesterday. He slowly ran through about a 100 rounds of 22 LR in my 9422, and then I let him bang away with the AR for maybe 30 rounds. The kid was a good shot, but he had already had some shooting experience with an old 22 I gave him last year.

The oldest grandson’s college buddy was from Boston. He was here last summer and shot the AR a bunch. He wants one now, he loves Texas, and says he’ll never live in Boston again. And I met his Mom. She wants to visit down here and learn to shoot. She seemed pretty excited about it.

Good thing I’m a reloader.
 

44 AMP

Staff
One of the issues we need to face is that while there are a lot of new gun owners, there are not a lot of new gun enthusiasts or shooters. And there likely won't be with the continuing demonization of guns and their owners.

Add in the increased expense, legal requirements, and shortages, and fewer people are likely to become interested in firearms as sport or hobby.

We are constantly hearing politicians and all kinds of other people in the public eye saying the problem is that guns are too easy to get.

That, is a lie.

The problem is too many people WILLING to shoot other people for fun or profit.
 

BornFighting88

New member
One of the issues we need to face is that while there are a lot of new gun owners, there are not a lot of new gun enthusiasts or shooters. And there likely won't be with the continuing demonization of guns and their owners.

Add in the increased expense, legal requirements, and shortages, and fewer people are likely to become interested in firearms as sport or hobby.

We are constantly hearing politicians and all kinds of other people in the public eye saying the problem is that guns are too easy to get.

That, is a lie.

The problem is too many people WILLING to shoot other people for fun or profit.
The NRA is a whole other story. I joined when I was mighty young knowing only of them as the only gun rights organization. I had no idea of the 2AF or the GOA. I had a Benefactor life membership to the NRA, but having seen what has become of them over the last so many years... I will not be sending them any more money, I haven't been for years. Over 10 years now. Have since joined the 2AF. I get much more out of that membership than I did with anything from the NRA. As quoted by the fellow forum member below:

"Ps.. some national organizations stopped catering to sportsmen and started making money by ginning up donations about 25 years ago. Then they started buying themselves boats. I want no part of that."

But as to what I Quoted by 44 AMP, somehow the footage of the Buffalo NY shooting has been released or leaked... I came across it and it made me violently sick. I have played video games before, but I have the separation of disbelief when it comes to an animated thing on a screen.

This video showed actual souls stolen. This creep was labeled (or more appropriately "flagged") as "Troubled" a year before by either his school or a psychologist (correct me if I messed that part up). But this would have made him ineligible to purchase a firearm via NICS. So this thing that "guns are too easy to get" is a lie, I completely agree with that.
 
The Virginia Tech shooter had been in the care of a psychiatrist or psychologist (don't remember which), and the Parklands shooter was also known to have had behavioral issues for several years. And then, of course, there's the Sandy Hook shooter ... who murdered his own mother before proceeding to the school. Yet they were all allowed to have access to firearms.

There are laws regarding possession of firearms by people with mental problems. I am of the opinion that far too many mental health professionals are dropping the ball because they are afraid of being sued. IMHO, psychology and psychiatry are not "sciences." They are much too "squishy" to be scientific. They are, at best, arts, and more likely akin to sorcery.
 

Pahoo

New member
A time and place for everythng

Any thoughts or experiences surrounding the "new gun owner" surge?
My latest observation was at one of my regular gun-stores and it was and eye opener. ....... :rolleyes:

The customer told the owner that he was there to buy a handgun for himself and wife. He wanted something "good" and money was not a concern. Reading the customers body language and "wording", it was obvious that he was not informed and "pressed" into buying a couple for self preservastion. My dealer friend who is a super helpful man, started with a line of questions and the end results were that the customer's knowledge was very limited. Did admit that historically, he was basically anti-gun but felt a need to do more to protect his family. ...:confused:
Now this may raise all kinds of red-flags and "personally" I feel this man needs a good training course but there are choices and in this case, not mine.

1) Can you really teach any person to shoot well and safely?
2) Can you really teach anyone how to hunt, safely and ethically?
3) Do you learn how to swim before you can buy a pair of swimming trunks?

Be Safe !!!
 

44 AMP

Staff
I am of the opinion that far too many mental health professionals are dropping the ball because they are afraid of being sued.

That's quite possible. Though I think a more charitable description might be that they aren't charging ahead to (further) screw up someone's life, without actual, actionable proof.

And that's a problem. Always has been, always will be, simply due to the nature of man, and the inescapable fact that all "mental health" counseling and evaluation relies on an arbitrary frame of reference (that which is considered "normal") and the honesty of the person being evaluated in answering questions used to judge them.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but seeing the future is murky, and not something reliable.

And this, to me, is the flaw in "predictive behavior". It's JUST an opinion. It may SEEM to work, when someone does behave in the predicted manner, but what happens when they don't? We NEVER hear about it.

Red Flag laws? What a wonderful way to violate someone's rights, including the right to due process....because someone thought someone might be a threat....

Laws must have set limits and conditions, otherwise we get chaos (more than we currently have). If a person meets the legal standard for X, then the law can act. If not, it can't. NOR should it act if there is no evidence a crime has been, or is planned to be committed.

The Virginia Tech shooter had been in the care of a psychiatrist or psychologist (don't remember which), and the Parklands shooter was also known to have had behavioral issues for several years. And then, of course, there's the Sandy Hook shooter ... who murdered his own mother before proceeding to the school. Yet they were all allowed to have access to firearms.

You can go back farther, and see similar situations. Purdy, who's mass murder at Stockton in 86 (and started the whole "assault weapon" hysteria) was not only under "care" he was receiving money from the govt each month, because he was "mentally disabled" and unable to work.
At the time, this information (which probably would have disqualified him) was NOT ALLOWED to be reported to other govt agencies due to it being part of his private medical records. He passed the CA background check and 15day waiting period, TWICE, legally buying two different handguns, on separate occassions. He bought the AK clone he used in OR, and met all the legal requirements in place at the time.

Later on, he killed a bunch of kids, some teachers, and then, himself.

There was an incident a few years back now, I forget the names, but a CA guy was reported to the police as possibly dangerous. They went to his house and did a "health & safety check". Talked to him for a while, then left, pronouncing him, sane, stable, and "safe".

the very next day, he stabbed several people, shot a few and ran over some more with his car. According to reports, he did all that because he was upset that he couldn't get a girlfriend...

The mind of man can be as trackless as a bog at midnight, and the ONLY thing any "evaluator" (with a psych degree or without) has to go on is what the person being evaluated tells them. And, you know what? sometimes, people LIE......:rolleyes:

Why is it that we are expected to accept background checks and psych evals as holy writ, but we are constantly told "past behavior is not a guarantee of future performance" if you're looking at buying stock, or otherwise investing money???

Also, I have a bit of an issue with this phrase...
Yet they were all allowed to have access to firearms.

They were not ALLOWED access to firearms. Anymore than the rest of us are ALLOWED access to any of our natural rights.
What happened was that they were not placed in the prohibited person class. And, for the good reason that they had not done anything to put them there, BEFORE they went on a killing rampage.

Remember what we champion as the basis for our system, that you aren't guilty of something you haven't done. Until, and unless you do something that DOES break some legal rule, you have exactly the same rights as everyone else.

I'm not trying to defend the killers, or the system, only to point out that "bad guys" aren't "bad guys" until they DO some bad thing. Until then, they are law abiding citizens with ALL the legal rights we have.

To be a bit more pedantic, they were not allowed access to firearms, they were entitled access to firearms, just like all the rest of us, who are not prohibited by law.

In hindsight, sure, it was not a good idea, but it was the only LEGAL choice at the time, when they had done no wrong at that point. We have a system for legally adjudicating people to determine if they are mentally competent enough to retain the right to arms (and other things). Its, slow, cumbersome, and entirely individual specific, but it allows for due process and both sided to present their evidence in court. Not quick and easy like a red flag law, where the govt is allowed to take your guns NOW, and figure out if you are actually a threat later sometime in the coming year...

I'll say it again, regarding this, if a person is actually a danger to the public, taking their gun(s) and leaving them their money and their freedom to get other weapons, is just barking STUPID, to me. IF they are that dangerous, then they (the PERSON) needs to be locked up. Not inanimate objects they own, leaving them free to obtain others if they choose...

The system is literally custom built for abuse, and personally, I don't care to face "the question" because my snotty neighbor thinks I'm a witch.....:mad:

And, yes, if I'm ever falsely accused, after I'm cleared, I'm going to sic every ambulance chaser I can find on the person/people who did it to me.
with pleasure
 

reynolds357

New member
Was at a Rural King today looking at ammo prices. Lady walks up next to me and says something to the effect of "Aren't they all pretty. I wish I could take more home." Turns out she was talking about the firearms. We had a brief conversation wherein she revealed she'd recently bought a 22, a 9mm and an AR15. The telling statement was "And they are all still in the box." Really?

I kick myself now that I didn't pursue that conversation a bit more. I think these were her first guns ever. I should have asked what brought that on?

Also, I read a piece, I think it was in the WSJ, about a rash of gun thefts in larger cities, ostensibly due to first time gun owners being careless with where they leave their guns.

One more, about two years ago, I was at my range, and a guy from my church was there picking up a Sig Sauer Mosquito. (Yeah, I know it a crappy gun.) Anyway, once in a while when I see him I ask if he has shot the mosquito yet. So far the answer is "no."

While I tend to think the increase in gun ownership is a good thing, there may be a thing or two askew as well.

Like my buddy from my writer's group. He had some experience with guns from his childhood. He bought an AR-7 (The survival gun.) and I helped him learn how to shoot it. I think in our next conversation I'll ask why.

Any thoughts or experiences surrounding the "new gun owner" surge?

Life is good.
Prof Young
Yeah. Most of the new gun owners around here shouldn't have guns.
A lot of young thug looking, thug acting, men are buying Glocks. They very often come in a LGS I frequent. They say "I want a Glock". He sells them the highest price Glock he has. They don't care if it's a 9, 10, 40, 45, 357 Sig; as long as it's a Glock.
My best friend sold all his Glocks because he said he didn't want to be seen with a "ghetto gun". Got me thinking of selling mine.
 
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reynolds357

New member
My latest observation was at one of my regular gun-stores and it was and eye opener. ....... :rolleyes:

The customer told the owner that he was there to buy a handgun for himself and wife. He wanted something "good" and money was not a concern. Reading the customers body language and "wording", it was obvious that he was not informed and "pressed" into buying a couple for self preservastion. My dealer friend who is a super helpful man, started with a line of questions and the end results were that the customer's knowledge was very limited. Did admit that historically, he was basically anti-gun but felt a need to do more to protect his family. ...:confused:
Now this may raise all kinds of red-flags and "personally" I feel this man needs a good training course but there are choices and in this case, not mine.

1) Can you really teach any person to shoot well and safely?
2) Can you really teach anyone how to hunt, safely and ethically?
3) Do you learn how to swim before you can buy a pair of swimming trunks?

Be Safe !!!
I learned how to swim before I had swim trunks.
 

44 AMP

Staff
and, we didn't have to go to a "swim dealer" (and pay him) and pass a govt required background check before we got into the water....
 
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