New graduate of major LE org. provides wrong answers to simple test deadly force

brentfoto

New member
Here's the scenario. YOU, THE BYSTANDER, are at your local gunclub/FFL where a soon-to-be graduate of a major LE organization academy in a major County in a very large State has purchased a handgun, a rather expensive Sig-Sauer...

The LE purchaser was still required to pass a written true-false examination to obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate, a prerequisite to purchase of the firearm, and to wait ten days to pick up the gun.

The soon-to-be LE grad passed the written test.

You, however, happen to overhear that he has answered incorrectly two or three questions concerning justifiable use of deadly force. These may be the only questions posed that concerned use of deadly force. The salesman is flabbergasted, you are flabbergasted.

The LE grad says he's 'tired', but when further queried about the wrong answers by the salesman the LE still quibbles about the wording of the question(s) and obviously reads too much into them. You’re a bit ‘shocked’, so is the salesman.

A few days pass and you are concerned about the matter. It 'comes up' in your thoughts.

The particular LE organization from which this person will graduate has no shortage of shootings.

You think 'if this were a civilian I would not be as concerned, but this guy's gonna carry a gun at all times and perhaps encounter an innocent civilian and shoot him due to 'reading too much' into his conduct.

Assume the LE grad can not be forced to take the written examination again because he still passed the exam as his overall score was 'satisfactory'.

What should YOU, an ordinary member and customer of the gunclub/FFL, do, if anything, and WHY?
 

brentfoto

New member
I've posted this elsewhere. So far, I have the two extremes-yours and the other that this should be reported to his CO. hhhmmm..... I'm really interested in everyone's viewpoint. This is a true situation, and I am the one to make the decision to act, or not to act. I would hope this might generate a lot of discussion and viewpoints. Thanks for yours.

Why is it none of my concern?
 

chris in va

New member
It would help if you weren't quite so vague. What were the questions he 'failed'?

I agree, nothing really you need to concern yourself with.

But if you *must* insist on doing something, get his name and report to his organization. Then you'll realize the first course of action was the best.
 

brentfoto

New member
Assume that he answered incorrectly all questions re use of deadly force.

I only recall one. But I'll search my 'memory' to see if I recall the other two.

Paraphrasing now-'your assailant is rendered unconscious. Can you apply deadly force?'

His answer was 'Yes'. When asked to explain his answer he said 'Well the guy was faking it".
 

brentfoto

New member
LOL! But this is something that has concerned me. I shrugged it off but it's been in my thoughts recently. You would've had to be there...
 

RedneckFur

New member
Call the sherrif's office from a pay phone, and explain what you heard, and ask his openion. Dont give your name or address. See where it goes from there.
 

Dobe

New member
What can you do? What are your options? You can't force him to retrain. You are not about to change the department's policy with one instance. If you can prove the shootings by the department in question are statistically out-of-line nation wide, then you may be able to do something assuming you have the funds or the media on your side.

I have always told my kids that if they ever saw the National Guard or police taking martial action, leave. There is too much room for error.
 

sholling

New member
Well if he is from the southern half of the PRK then you sir have it all wrong. With the possible exception of gunning down the mayor's unarmed 3y/o daughter in front of a TV news camera on a slow news day all LE shooting are justifiable as obvious cases self defense and are therefore within policy. What more is there for him/her to understand? ;)

This is not meant to slight the 99.9% of LEOs that are fine human beings, it's just a fact of life here.
 

hoytinak

New member
I just wanna know where you have to take a true/false test then wait ten days in order to pick up a pistol? (gotta avoid that state :p) I really don't think there's anything you could do...maybe make a formal written complaint to the training department there, but it's not likely to do any good. After all, he prolly wrote down what he was trained or told to.
 

Dobe

New member
Think of what most police departments pay. Then think of how many may be of the type who really beleive in what they are doing. This adds up to many truely good cops, but some less desirables will slip through. I live in La, and I am constantly reminded of some of the less than admirable TV scenes of the N.O. Police. It sticks in your mind, even when you are seeing a State Trooper helping an elderly person change a tire. But that seems to be the way our mind works. The unpleasantries trump the pleasant.
 

brentfoto

New member
I just think the guy was not all very bright and I would not want to possibly jeopardize his career when he's just starting out...

Ended up contacting the salesman. I asked the salesman if he had since given any thought about the incident and he replied in the negative. This is the same salesman that extensively demonstrated and tested me as part of the 'handgun demonstration' safety 'test' before you can pick up a new gun (yes, ANOTHER requirement in our beloved State of California).

Anyway, I voiced my concern about it to the salesman and suggested that he have a little chat with the guy when he comes to pick up his gun. It may or may not be the best 'solution' but it worked for me.

Thanks to all for their input.
 

Perldog007

New member
GO EAST. REPEAT AS NECESSARY ADDING SOUTHWARD MOTION AS REQUIRED TO ACHIEVE RELATIVE FREEDOM. IGNORE AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

Good luck.
 

Yankee Doodle

New member
RedneckFur
Won't go anywhere. Anon. phone calls are treated as crank calls. If anyone has a complaint, give them your name, address, phone number and any other ID they choose to ask for. Then, be prepared to follow through on the complaint.
If you don't feel strongly enough about it to want to do this, forget it.
Just a young cop temporarily "stuck on stupid." That too shall pass.
 

sholling

New member
Think of what most police departments pay.
I'm sure it's gone up since I last checked but as of 3-4 years ago Los Angles (the other LA) paid a rookie just entering the academy between $41k and $43k depending on his/her level of education. A patrolman maxed out at roughly $65k, sergeants in excess of $85k. A detective friend was knocking down $120k with OT. Retirement can come as early as 20 years or 41 years of age. I know he wasn't yet 45 when he retired. I don't begrudge our LEOs a nickel of it most do a fine job, although many cities here are facing bankruptcy due primarily to extravagant pension commitments. Oh well I'll be gone by then.
 

johnle

New member
i seriously can't recall any questions on the HSC about deadly force, and I got 100%.

the HSC is a joke, it's so easy a cave man can do it.
 

Kilroy

New member
Easy way out. You didn't have to stand up for anything. The salesman won't. The LE won't care. And you'll feel a slight bit better by posting here that you almost did something about it.
 

brentfoto

New member
What was I supposed to do? It wasn't even my business-I just overheard it. The one who should take true responsibility for any retraining would be the one who administered the test and went over the incorrect answers with him.

I don't think reporting to his CO would have been appropriate. The salesman is a serious reloader, IDPA shooter, and certified to do the FFL requisites. I think that I made the proper decision and don't have any qualms about it. But you are entitled to criticize me all you want.

The customer was tired but did not seem unstable in any way.
 
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