new brass for the new guy

[308Loader]

Hello again everyone. I am a new reloader, just started this summer and I'm on my 300th round. I am having a good time with it. Every thing I have loaded to this point has been my once fired brass. Most of my cases are at the end of their life span I think. Starting to see the shine 1/16" up from the head of the case and can feel a not so smooth area on the inside of the case. I have loaded some cases 5 times or so and am retiring them after the next firing. So this brings me to the question.

With new virgin brass what do I need to do different than loading once fired cases?

I picked up some HSM .308 brass at the store. Tossed an empty case in my rifle to see how it chambered, and it fit well. So am I correct in assuming that I prime, charge, seat and shoot? Or am I missing something?

Thanks

 

[4runnerman]

I always FLS new brass before I load it.

 

[308Loader]

why? I have also herd of fire forming new cases to expand them to your chamber. Is this a good practice? if so how? Last one, what about annealing new rounds is it worth it?

 

[jepp2]

Unless there is some problem, I see no benefit in sizing new rifle brass, but there is a downside. You add one more work cycle to the neck to work harden it. I do run the expander through the neck to make them nice and round and chamfer the inside of case mouth.

But there are many folks that feel it is necessary to FL size new brass.

 

[308Loader]

On further inspection of this HSM brass, the mouth is banged around quite a bit. I see the point of running the expander through. Should I set my fls to the new brass?

 

[mikld]

Mass produced anything can often produce OOPS! once in a while, so even though most new brass is in good shape dimension-wise, I like to start with a known good case. I F/L size most of my new or new to me brass...

 

[F. Guffey]

I picked up some HSM .308 brass at the store. Tossed an empty case in my rifle to see how it chambered, and it fit well. So am I correct in assuming that I prime, charge, seat and shoot? Or am I missing something?

Or am I missing something? Everyone misses it (something). The case chambered, I would suggest you learn to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case. Your new brass is sized to minimum length, something like full length sized. I would suggest you save a few of the new cases for reference, there will come a time your fired cases will not chamber, this phenomena has caused reloaders to grind the top of the shell holder or the bottom of the die, and worst, purchase tools they do not need because they do not know 'what will chamber'.

What will chamber? A new unfired case or factory ammo that has not been fired. Necks, if the neck has been bent and or dented it will be necessary to straighten the neck, in the old days new cases came in a box of 20, now they come in a baggy, back then it was possible to purchase new primed cases.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

I see the point of running the expander through. Should I set my fls to the new brass?

I have neck sizer dies, if I wanted to straighten necks I would use the neck sizer die, it is possible to straighten the neck of cases with a full length sizer.

Not a problem but the expander ball must first pass through the neck, then the case must be sized down in the die then the expander must be pulled through again when the ram is lowered.

"Set my die to full length size the new brass" Sizing the neck with the die is nothing like the abuse the neck gets when the trigger is pulled. the neck expands rapidly then all of that hot, high pressure metal cutting gas passes through, then there is that part where the firing pin does something and the case runs to the rear if it ever left.

I do not believe full length sizing the cases will harm the case, but there is an assumption full length sizing is full length sizing. My favorite case is the new case, then there is the other favorite case, that would be the case that is too long from the shoulder to the head of the case to chamber. I do not assume new cases are full length sized, but when the new case chambers I want to know 'by how much'.

F Guffey

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Various brands of new brass are in various stages of readiness, depending especially on your requirements for accuracy.

Any of them may or may not had mouths that are slightly out of round due to shipping/handling.

Brands like Lapua and Norma are otherwise ready to load and I've never done a thing to them.

Brands like Winchester and Remington will have significant weight variation and will have mouths that are not only out of round but also not square and the cases will be of inconsistent length. How much this matters is up to the reloader and their goals.

Me, I buy Norma and Lapua.

Properly resized brass will last dozens of loads. If you're getting incipient case head separation, you are pushing the shoulder back too far. A very common mistake, often brought about by following the generic instructions in books and that come with die sets.

 

[Bart B.]

... then there is that part where the firing pin does something and the case runs to the rear if it ever left.

Does this mean the case head always stays against the bolt face when a new .308 case (whose head to shoulder length is a few thousandths inch less than chamber headspace) is chambered when the firing pin' moving forward with 25 or so pounds of force as it strikes the primer and fires the round when it dents the primer .030" or more deep?

If that's the way things happen, what holds the case head against the bolt face while the primer's fired?

 

[308Loader]

ok, so I got a hornady head space comparator kit to measure my brass. new brass mesures 1.6185, once fired brass is 1.6225. I need to set my die to bump shoulder .002 back correct? so it should measure 1.6205. I set up my die according to the lee instructions "screw die in until it touches the shell holder, lower ram and screw in 1/4 to 1/3 more". this gives me a re sized measurement of 1.6250. what gives? should I be looking for 1.6245?

 

[F. Guffey]

No, you should make every effort to learn methods and techniques that would allow you to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

Or you could take an advance course in case forming, reloaders that can form cases to fit the chamber do not find it necessary to fire form. Case formers form first then fire.

F. Guffey

 

[308Loader]

shouldn't my measurements be getting shorter not longer. where do I find a class on reloading?

 

[Bart B.]

I don't think the die is set down enough. Screw it down another 1/16 turn, size that case again then measure it. Let us know what it measures.

Does the shell holder touch the bottom of the die at the top of its stroke?

The die needs to be set so it bumps the fired case shoulder back .002". You're right; case should measure 1.6205" after sizing.

You don't need a reloading class. You're doing just fine learning as you go. I'll help you get it right.

 

[308Loader]

with a small adjustment left = down, same case measures 1.227. should I back off die, right turn some?

 

[Bart B.]

Check that case again. 1/16 turn does not move the die .400 inch.

One turn moves the die almost .072 inch. 1/4 turn moves it .018 inch. You can figure out smaller ones yourself. Multiply .072" by a fraction of a turn. Or, if you want to move the die .004 inch, divide .072 by .004 and you get 18; so 1/18th turn moves the die .004 inch. 1/16 turn is close enough.

Turning the die to the right means turning it clockwise as viewed from above. Turning it left is counterclockwise.

Return the die to its original setting then start over with another fired case.

If the die isn't down enough to bump the shoulder back sizing the case, it often is longer from head to shoulder.

 

[308Loader]

is it possible the expander ball is stretching the case longer on the down stroke of the press? I will remove the expander and try another case.

 

[308Loader]

Bingo! so pin out I can push shoulder back, and brass gets shorter. set to manufacture instructions gets me close to the .002. so now what? I need an expander to straighten out neck and open mouth.

 

[Bart B.]

Good for you; finding out what the problem is.

I suggest you measure the die's neck and see what its diameter is. They're typically about .331" or so for standard full length sizing dies. Yours may need to be opened up to a few thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter.

Do this. Remove the expander ball, then full length size a fired case. Measure its neck diameter. It's typically going to be a 1 or 2 thousandths larger than the die's neck diameter. Let me know what it is.

Next, measure the thickness of the neck wall, then double it. Subtract that number from the sized down, but not expanded back up, case neck. That'll be the diameter of the sized down case mouth. Let me know what it is.

 

[308Loader]

measured 2 cases
1st case outside dia is .325, wall is .015 so inside dia is .295
2nd case outside dia is .327 wall is .017 so inside dia is .293