I seem to be having a hard time finding data on the 460 Rowland. Ive found quite a bit using AA#7. Only problem with this is that I cant locate any AA#7 locally. I have an ample supply of Unique,Power Pistol, bullseye Red Dot and 2400. I was hoping to be able to use one of these powders for a load. What I'm after is two different loads, One for just all around pinking and one for a full power hunting load. From what i have seen/read online, You can use 45 acp load data for the higher pressure 460 Rowland. A light target load isn't much of a problem as i can always shoot my standard load of 230gr ball and bullseye in the 460 case. If anyone happens to know of any data out there, please let me know.
Needing Load data/460 Rowland
- Thread starter slammedsi
- Start date
Lotsa Power Pistol data here on this table:
http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm
I've used Hodgdon Longshot, but I've only really dabbled in .460 Rowland.
I have also seen where you can use standard .45 Auto load data in .460 Rowland. The internal dimensions should be the same (or awfully close) even though the brass is longer on the Rowland, the fully loaded COAL remains very close. These rounds are built to run through all .45 Auto magazines. The construction of the brass is different, however, because the Rowland brass is stronger. If anything, you may have a little less space inside, which would edge the .45 Auto loads up a bit. But in a pistol spec'd for .460 Rowland, they would be very light.
Forget using anyone's standard 230gr Hardball bullet. The profile simply isn't going to work for the Rowland. You need a bullet with a flat tip and/or shorter profile.
http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm
I've used Hodgdon Longshot, but I've only really dabbled in .460 Rowland.
I have also seen where you can use standard .45 Auto load data in .460 Rowland. The internal dimensions should be the same (or awfully close) even though the brass is longer on the Rowland, the fully loaded COAL remains very close. These rounds are built to run through all .45 Auto magazines. The construction of the brass is different, however, because the Rowland brass is stronger. If anything, you may have a little less space inside, which would edge the .45 Auto loads up a bit. But in a pistol spec'd for .460 Rowland, they would be very light.
Forget using anyone's standard 230gr Hardball bullet. The profile simply isn't going to work for the Rowland. You need a bullet with a flat tip and/or shorter profile.
Sevens, Thanks for the data. I have a few 200grain XTP's and the load using 12.6 grains of Power Pistol for a velocity of 1475 fps shouldn't be bad if the accuracy is there. Main use for this round is a hog/deer out to 50 yards. I will be using a Glock 21SF with a 6 inch lonewolf slide and barrel. Slide has been milled for a Burris Fast Fire III.
Can you explain what you mean buy not using the standard ball ammo? Are you speaking in terms of not feeding correctly? or in another way.
Can you explain what you mean buy not using the standard ball ammo? Are you speaking in terms of not feeding correctly? or in another way.
The XTP linup does quite well, but also Hornady only rates their 200gr and 230gr XTPs to 1,250 fps. Not that they won't work at faster speeds, but pretty much anything much past 1,250 you might see a loss of penetration.
I'm not telling you what to do, as I know the 200gr XTP load would work, but I've found in the .45 Super (loaded to 460 Rowland spec) that you might be better off using a heavier bullet. For instance Hornady's 250gr XTP is rated for up to 1,500 fps and from a 5" G21 .45 Super I'm running them a little over 1,300 fps.
But, that's merely a suggestion as the 250gr will likely stay intact better than the ACP intended 200gr XTP and penetrate better too, which isn't much of a concern for deer, but certainly could be for hogs. My main point is just to watch out driving .45 ACP bullets too fast, it might be worth considering heavier bullets, as a number of .45 Colt bullets will work great and are generally tougher designs.
I'm not telling you what to do, as I know the 200gr XTP load would work, but I've found in the .45 Super (loaded to 460 Rowland spec) that you might be better off using a heavier bullet. For instance Hornady's 250gr XTP is rated for up to 1,500 fps and from a 5" G21 .45 Super I'm running them a little over 1,300 fps.
But, that's merely a suggestion as the 250gr will likely stay intact better than the ACP intended 200gr XTP and penetrate better too, which isn't much of a concern for deer, but certainly could be for hogs. My main point is just to watch out driving .45 ACP bullets too fast, it might be worth considering heavier bullets, as a number of .45 Colt bullets will work great and are generally tougher designs.
This is what I used with I worked up 460 Rowland loads in May of 2000, and it is still on the internet 14 years later:
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/460loadchart.htm
I did the 185 gr AA#5.
I used mixed once fired 45acp brass in a 20 ounce Patriot. I was getting a flinch and parts were falling off with the stock 12 pound spring. So I put together a 42 pound triple recoil spring assembly.
1) through 4) are published loads.
0) is mine.
0) 45 acp........................... 185 gr. 7.6 gr. AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot spring
1) 45 acp............................185 gr. 10.2 gr. AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P.......................185 gr. 10.8 gr. AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super.........................185 gr. 12.4 gr. AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland.................. 185 gr. 14.5 gr. AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
The reason I am giving those other loads is to show that 460 Rowland can be thought of as just another point on the spectrum of 45acp.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/460loadchart.htm
I did the 185 gr AA#5.
I used mixed once fired 45acp brass in a 20 ounce Patriot. I was getting a flinch and parts were falling off with the stock 12 pound spring. So I put together a 42 pound triple recoil spring assembly.
1) through 4) are published loads.
0) is mine.
0) 45 acp........................... 185 gr. 7.6 gr. AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot spring
1) 45 acp............................185 gr. 10.2 gr. AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P.......................185 gr. 10.8 gr. AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super.........................185 gr. 12.4 gr. AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland.................. 185 gr. 14.5 gr. AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
The reason I am giving those other loads is to show that 460 Rowland can be thought of as just another point on the spectrum of 45acp.
Well, I meant the slugs themselves... the standard, "everyone on Earth loads, shoots or buys their .45 ammo with:" 230gr FMJ round nose bullets.
You're building your ammo for a specific purpose, in this case - hunting. But for folks like me who just get in to goofy chamberings because it's fun, interesting and different... we typically look for any projectile that runs well, and can be bought 1,000 or 5,000 at a time, to save on costs.
I was merely saying that the .460 Rowland, at least when used is a semi-auto as most will be, just aren't set up for the round bullet. There's too much bullet out of the end of the cartridge case and the COAL ends up being too long for the magazine.
The Rowland uses a longer case so that it cannot be chambered in .45 ACP guns, and also because it's not a wise idea to build .460 Rowland "spec" loads in a regular .45 ACP case.
The Rowland may use a longer case, but the ammo is still short enough to fit in a standard 1911 magazine. And if you loaded .460 Rowland with a standard 230gr FMJ slug in the proper place... it wouldn't fit in the magazine.
In a Glock mag, perhaps? No idea. But all the loads I've seen load data for has been with flat point or JHP profile slugs, so that the fully loaded COAL still allows for proper fit in a 1911 magazine. I've not yet seen any load data source for .460 Rowland with a 230gr FMJ round nose bullet.
slammedsi said:
Nope, just keep an eye on your OAL as most of the heavier hardcasts are designed for revolvers (.45 Colt, etc) and are rather blunt, as you can see in the picture below. It's going to depend on how much throat your barrel has in it, the KKM barrel I have is good for some designs but the real blunt bullets have to be seated to a shorter OAL in order to chamber.
I think the bullest L-R are 230gr XTP, 250gr XTP, 255gr Beartooth hardcast, 275gr Hunters Supply hardcast.
Lack of a gas check will not interfere with your ability to push them as fast as you can... and leading will likely be much more related to their sized diameter and how it interacts with your bore. I would say you simply won't know until you've tried it.
I'd also suggest that even if they do give you some leading, that's no reason to stop using them if they do what you want them to do. Consider how many of them you think you'll be able to stand/enjoy shooting, and consider how much money you can throw at brass and bullets? It's not the end of the world to have to use some elbow grease to remove some fouling as long as it's not so much that you are compromising the safety of the operation with some SERIOUS build-up of lead. (that will increase pressure)
I'd also suggest that even if they do give you some leading, that's no reason to stop using them if they do what you want them to do. Consider how many of them you think you'll be able to stand/enjoy shooting, and consider how much money you can throw at brass and bullets? It's not the end of the world to have to use some elbow grease to remove some fouling as long as it's not so much that you are compromising the safety of the operation with some SERIOUS build-up of lead. (that will increase pressure)
Wreck-n-Crew
New member
Bore and hardness. Not all hard cast have the same Brinell harness. Good hard cast bullets do well in 44 magnum (often compared to the Rowland) so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do as well. You want a mixture of at least 2% Sn(tin) 6% Sb (antimony) and 92% Pb (lead). This is a common mixture among most of the brands I am aware of and harder than some might think. Take a hammer to one and it doesn't smash flat like a wheel weight or sinker will.
For .44 Magnum rounds I have had good luck with the harder cast with a little more antimony. I like The Bullet Works mix for faster rounds ...some info :http://www.thebulletworks.net/category-s/17.htm
Then there are some that think it is more than necessary...they might be right but I never had an issue with the harder cast and just seemed more sensible to stick with a good thing. A heavier round has lower velocities and help with leading as well.
Thanks that's exactly what I wanted to know. Recoil and cost really isn't much of a problem. The only thing I was worring about was how many I had to purchase at a time. I didn't want to buy 500 .452 only to find out they lead badly and can't push them to the velocities I desire.