Need help with 38 wadcutter load

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DAVID JOHNSON

New member
Hi all. I need help with my 38 Wadcutter load.
I just returned from the range and some of my 38 wadcutter loads would not chamber in my Smith & Wesson Model 52. Upon inspection of the loads that would not chamber I noticed some of the cases had a buldge were the lower part of the lead bullet was in the in the case. Any ideal why this happened? Most of the bullets did not do this but some did. Iwas using 148 grain lead beveled bullet over 2.7 grains of bullseyes powder. Should I go to hollow core base lead bullets? Can you run the loaded bullets through the sizer again.
Any info would be helpful.

DJ.
 
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sricciardelli

New member
The 52 is famous for being picky.

Are you sure it is the "bulge" in the case that is causing the rounds not to chamber, or is it your crimp?
 
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DAVID JOHNSON

New member
It's the buldge, you can feel difference in the case and it
also larger when you meassure it up to .380 around the case. The bullet will chamber about 1/2 but the slide will not close and you can't force it shut with your hand. The bullet will eject when you pull the slide back.

DJ.
 
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Archie

New member
Yes,

you can run the loaded round through the sizing die. But you have to remove the decapping pin.

You might try a Lee "Factory Crimp Die". It resizes as part of the process.

You are seating the bullet flush with the case mouth, are you not?

The load sounds right.
 
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bfoster

New member
You might check case wall thickness.

Over the years I have run into a few lots of .38 Special brass where the case wall was thick enough in the neighborhood of the bullet base to cause chambering problems when a wad cutter was loaded (flush) for use in my Colt Midrange. This pistol has a near minimum chamber, as is likely the case with your M52.

Changing brass lots may solve your problem. Unfortunately, I can't recommend a manufacturer. I've seen this problem with all major manufacturers.

If case wall thickness is the problem you are facing, switching to a HBWC may exacerbate your troubles. The idea behind this style bullet is to get a longer projectile with the weight forward, not (primarily) to allow collapse of the bullet within the case to be followed by expansion upon firing.

Bullet retention is important. Years ago, Remington ran a series of tests which showed dramatic pressure increases where a wadcutter was allowed to recede back into the case.

One solution may the Lee Factory crimp die. If the case walls are suitable, this will work well. But if the brass walls are too thick you'll simply swage the bullet undersize.

If you prefer not to use this method, an equally workable procedure is rolling a (light) cannelure into the case just below where the bullet base will be with something like the CH tool.

If you are casting your own bullets, assuming a mould like the H&G #50BB or its clones, and a soft alloy, you might try lubing the rear groove only. Back in the '60's, E. Harrison of the NRA technical staff ran extensive tests which showed better accuracy with minimal lube (no leading problems result with the classic 2.7 grain Bullseye/148 grain WC 38 Special load).

Bob
 
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LIProgun

New member
My experience with the S&W 52-2 is that it doesn't like cast BBWCs. With swaged HBWCs from Speer or Hornady, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimped around the leading edge, the 52-2 just hums along.

I prefer the Hornady HBWCs to Speer only because the waxy lube on the Speer bullets accumulates in my seating stem and can effect overall length. The graphite-type lube on Hornady bullets is cleaner and doesn't get stuck in the dies.
 
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Quantrill

New member
38 wadcutters

Dave,
All the suggestions above are good. bfoster mentions the case thickness which is a possibility. I have found that to happen most often with military brass. The other idea I had was the diameter of the bullet. Check this because an oversize bullet, even a little bit (359) and a slightly thick brass shell can combine to cause you the type of problem that you have. Quantrill
 
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IamNOTaNUT

New member
I ran into the same thing a few years back. I had a real "Oh sh**!" moment over the incident because a friend of mine wanted to tag along to a pistol match (PPC) and I talked him into shooting instead. His first match.

I cranked out a bunch of wadcutters at the last minute and did not have time to do my usual inspection. I gave him the ammo and we were off. I fired my match with narry a hiccup, and went behind the glass to watch him shoot. No good. He couldn't reload. Some of the ammo had a bulge.

I learned, the hard and embarassing way, that not all .38 brass is a good combination with the wadcutter round, BB, DE, or HB. I looked through all of my ammo and noticed that the only brass that would handle this reliably was Remington and Federal. I still find one or two rounds a batch that have a bit of a bulge, but it is so slight that it will chamber in my 686.

I also learned not to talk a friend into shooting his first match, using my ammo, if I have not had enough time to make quality rounds and inspect / chamber check each of them before I give them away! I don't think he's ever shot another match and I feel responsible for that.

Anyhow - I use 148 DEWC, 3.3 grains of w231, fed 100 primer, RP brass, OAL 1.192 This seating depth leaves just a hint of the bullett nose extending beyond the case as an aid to rapid reloading withe a safaariland c3 speedloader. I use the federal primers to ensure ignition with a light hammer strike.

I am an average shot at best, but this gives me a group that measures well under an inch at 10 yards offhand. When I haven't loaded up on Diet Coke before shooting, that is. :)
 
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NoSweat

New member
I recommend the 148 HBWC . I have used this for years, over 2.8 gr of Bullseye. I have run this through 6 or 8 Model 52's that I have owned, with no failures to feed. This includes any kind of brass in all sorts of good and bad condition.

I always crimp the case over the end of the bullet.

I have had occasional problems when I didn't bell the mouth enough to start the bullet in straight. As a result, the bullet entered at an angle and bulged the side of the case, on one side. These would not always feed well.

Like LIProgun, I like the graphite type lube. Most HBWC are swedged, not cast, and the Model 52 seems to like them.
 
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MADISON

New member
52 and wadcutters

In the 60's my S&W Model 52 shot like a house-a-fire with 2.7 grains of BULLSEYE. The cases required trimming after each firing, though.

I TAPER CRIMP all my handgun cases.
 
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Dogjaw

New member
I was thinking along the lines of case length when I read Madison's post. Are you crushing the case when crimping, causing the bulge? If you have an ocassonal case that's longer than the rest, this could be a problem.
 
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Gewehr98

New member
Ditto the Hornady graphite-lubed 148gr HBWC's

Although lately I've been shooting the Berry's copper-plated 148gr HBWC's, I dislike field-stripping my Model 52 to get that little bit of leading out of the barrel's throat. The only swaged bullets I tried that didn't lead much were the Hornady's and Alberts. (Wish they were still in business, I'm just about out of them)

I've noticed the bulging of the brass, too, and found that nickel-plated brass does it more often than plain brass. I'm assuming it's just that much thicker, but often it's too large in diameter to smoothly chamber in my Model 52. Could be that some bullet manufacturers are varying their finished product between .357-.359, too.

Behind a 148gr HBWC, 2.8gr of WST is my cleanest and most consistent load for my Model 52 and PPC/Steel Challenge revolver.
 
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DAVID JOHNSON

New member
Hi all
Sorry for the delay on the update. My father had a mild heart attack and I have been out of town for a week.
I noticed last Sat while reloading some additional loads that the wadcutters I was using was like my clothes closet... small, large and larger. While I was loading some of the bullets would not sit straight on the case some were just fine and some of the bullets went all the way into the case about a quarter of an inch below the case lip in fact I could turn the case over and shake the bullet out.

After the above I ordered some Star 148 hollow base match bullets. I think the Star are a pretty good I noticed some of the Bulleyes shooters use this bullet. Anyone have any history with the Star bullets?

DJ.
 
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Quantrill

New member
Wadcutters

Never used Stars'. I cast my own. But if the ones you were using had that much of a variation, toss'em out. I hope these Stars will solve your problem. I am still interested to know how you do. Sorry about your Dad. Hope they fix him up good as new. I have been where he is. Good luck to you both. Quantrill
 
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