Need Help: Permit Delays and Recourse?

Rovert

New member
I'm sure this has come up from time to time, but in the hopes of helping others that live in restrictive states, perhaps my situation, and the advice offered in this thread, might serve as a good FAQ for others that come after me.

Many of you here at TFL are aware I applied on October 4th of last year (2001, over three months ago) in my home town of Lakewood, NJ for the first time ever, to get an FID (Firearms Identification) card*, and three handgun permits. I was told by the clerk that the process would take 12 to 13 weeks, despite a state mandated requirement that we be approved or denied within 30 days.

Three weeks ago, on 12/28 I visited the records bureau at my local town hall to check on the progress. I was told that everything came back alright, that they were 'just waiting for paperwork', and that it would only be a couple more weeks. I know that my references have checked out alright, I know that my criminal and mental health background is clean, and the fingerprints and photos were taken the day I submitted the application.

Other gun owners I have talked to that live in adjoining towns, or in the same general area, and also applied for the first time, but did so AFTER me, have received their ID cards already. It is now creeping up on fifteen (15) weeks, almost four months, since I first applied. I understand the 30 days. I even understand that 30 can turn to 60 because of 9/11. But when we top 120 and push to 160 days, I have a problem. Something is seriously wrong.

Since I was told everything came back OK, and that others who applied after me, have gotten their cards, my conclusion is that the holdup isn't at the State or Federal level.

My question: What can I do to press for my 2nd amendment rights, and get what is justly due to me, preferably in a way that does not antagonize the local bureaucrats or law enforcement officials?

It is frightening that citizens in NJ are held hostage by a system that seems to not be accountable to anyone! Who do I complain to? Who can force them to release the paperwork? How do I get this taken care of?

* (In the state of NJ, one requires an FID to lawfully purchase a long gun, and it also allows you apply for handgun purchase permits, which are required to legally buy a handgun in this state. That process entails a $49 background check fee that consists of two personal character references, a mental health and criminal background check, fingerprinting, and ID photographs. Those who legally purchase any kind of firearm outside the state of NJ are permitted to bring them in, and can own and use them, and are not required to have an FID, nor do they have to register the guns. This requirement is a burden that is placed upon NJ residents to be able to legally purchase within our state)
 

Dot_mdb

New member
License Delays

Rovert,

As you know, I live one town away from yours. In my town the FID's are signed by the Chief of Police. If you haven't spoken with the Chief I think you should do so. He may be able to look into this problem. Your story is very disturbing because the same thing could happen to any of us.

I think you have to see what the Chief's attitude is. In my town the police seem to have a reasonable attitude about the whole process, even helpful. Maybe your PD will investigate this for you. After all that is what they do.

If you don't get good vibes after talking to the police then it is time to start sending FedEX letters to state senators, congressmen and the town's attorney. You might even try calling the State Attorney General's office to ask for advice. Eventually you will get some action. When the request for an explanation is in writing they will know that the next step is legal action and they don't want to get involved in that because they know they will lose.

Have you called the NRA to see what they can suggest? They might want to be helpful so that they can continue to ask you for additional donations twice a month.

I have a friend who is an attorney and I run into other attornies on the elevator and I will try to ask about this as soon as the opportunity arises.

It's not so funny how enforcement of our civil liberties is so selective.

You have my sympathies with this outrage. You will win in the end and they certainly owe you an explanation and apology.

Bill
 

RAY WOODROW 3RD

New member
Rovert,
It is probably because you asked for 3 pistol permits. They don't want a Constitutional nut ball like you running around with 3 handguns.:D My city clerk almost had a siezure when I asked for 4 pistol permits!(FOUR PISTOL PERMITS! WHAT DO YOU WANT WITH FOUR PISTOL PERMITS! I want to buy 4 pistols, mam.) Honestly, I told you at the shoot you were looking a 6 months at a minimum. The best you can do is to see the Chief and tell him whats up. If he doesn't put out good vibes then I would contact my lawyer and see if a letter could be sent to him to show that your dead serious. Some law inforcement agencies love to play God and decide who gets what. Get the lawyer to rip a piece of their you know what off. Maybe even have a meeting with the Mayor. How about your Assemblyman? What ever happens, keep your cool. Wait till they tell you that the finger prints were smudged and you have to re-apply again!:mad:
(just kidding!) :p
 

Rovert

New member
Sheesh. Everybody's a wise guy. :D

Thanks, fellas. I'm going to wait it out until this Friday, or Monday, and if nothing happens, I plan on taking some sort of action. Just what form that takes, will depend on the feedback I get here.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
I'll move this...

...to Legal & Political on the off chance that a trap-shootin' lawyer that doesn't hang out in General Handgunning may see it.



Hey, it could happen! :)
 

ZekeLuvs1911

New member
Hello Rovert,
Time to get in touch with Evan Nappen. You know who he is! Anyway, here in Woodbridge where I live, I applied for 4 (that's right!), 4 handgun permits around Thanksgiving week of 2001. By the middle of December 2001, I had received all four of them. So, Ray, I don't think it is because he applied for 3 permits. I've had about 7 permits issued to me over the last year. I think something or someone is delaying Rovert's progress. Anyway Rovert, good luck and let me know what happens!
 

Rovert

New member
George, I think this might be because I applied for the FID also. This isn't just the permit process, but the whole magillicutty. I understand that they might want to hold 30 days for a background check. I understand it might be pushed back to 60 days due to 9/11. But 90 days, knoking on the door of 120, is unacceptable.

Looking forward to any advice you guys can offer on how to approach the situation, and what recourse I might have.

Thanks!
 

Futo Inu

New member
To state the obvious

Get a lawyer and sue the bastards.

If they're violating the law, a judge would have little choice but to force them to issue. Be prepared to appeal though. Unfortunately, enforcing our rights nearly always requires spending time and money. Find a lawyer who is an expert in this area - Use the NRA referral system.
 

Rovert

New member
Unfortunately, I'm not in a financial position at the monent to take anyone to court. Looking for 'free' alternatives.
 

FrankK

New member
Since we're on the topic, here's a good one for those interested...

This past October I submitted a "change of address" form for the existing FID card that I've held since 1982. I also submitted a "permit to purchase" form at the same time. How long should it take to process a simple change of address and issue a new card??? Well, it's now over three months and I'm still waiting! Last week out of sheer frustration I left a voice mail message for the Chief of Police seeking an answer. The next day my wife received a phone call from the PD apologizing for the delay and saying that the cause was because the person who processes the applications was out sick since the summer and only recently returned to work! Apparently no one else was able to do it! I was told to expect a call in a week or so to pick up the new FID card and permits.........we'll see what happens.

Here's one more for you: (Assuming you have an FID card). If it has been longer than two years since you last submitted a "permit to purchase" form to their department, they want you to get re-fingerprinted for the NJSP SBI check (another $49.00 plus more time to wait) ......Hey, that policy is okay by me, I'll just make sure I submit a "permit to purchase" form every 6 months and get all those guns that I've had my eyes on!
 

Hard_Case

New member
I know this is probably not the advice you wish to hear, but I would caution against legal action at this point. I would also caution about getting overly vocal with the police as well.

Yes, I am familiar with the NJ system. I went through the same process last year, and it took about five and a half months for me to receive my FID card and pistol permit. From those I have spoken to, a 4-6 month wait is the standard for New Jersey to issue an FID, which varies by township. Some are less restricted, some are more restricted. So yes, it is the FID process which contains the issue, not the pistol permits.

Firstly, you need to remember that in the technical sense New Jersey does not have ANY RKBA whatsoever. The technical reading of the laws regarding firearms ownership is that it is a privelage that one requests of the police, and is granted by their leave.

I wish I could recall the location, it might have been Nappen II, but there are several state court rulings that the police in the past have used as precedents for successfully defending their flagrant violations of state law. There have been several State Senate bills sponsored to fix these violations, but none have made it as I recall to a full vote. We live in a soccer mom state, sadly. Even so, I believe that in Nappen II, Evan Nappen cautions against legislative action, unless the time becomes beyond unreasonable (over a year).

When I contacted at about the 4 month mark, I was informed that all paperwork on the 'state' level was received, but that the 'federal' background check was not returned. That's pretty much the stock in trade answer they give. I've often wondering if there was some internal system to this, or if it was just the police sitting on it, so to speak.

I would recommend contacting maybe every two weeks or so, and politely request an update on your application status. As distasteful as it is to say, you have to keep in mind that the people to whom you are speaking are the ones who will in effect control the system every time you wish to obtain another permit, or need another signature of any kind. Be very curteous, and be very respectful. I would hesitate very much to bring up something like the Constitution, or the Second Amendment. I would definitely contact legislators, but to keep in mind that the few who actually have a concern about the issue have been fighting the system for a long time.

Sadly, this is the way the system works. Another reason why NJ's number one export is disgruntled ex-citizens.
 

Rovert

New member
I was thinking about this as a first attempt in writing, to be sent return receipt requested:

Dear ______

I am writing to inquire after the status of my application for a Firearms Identification Card and 3 handgun purchase permits, submitted on 10/4/01. During my personal visit to your office on 12/28/01, you were kind enough to review the paperwork, and informed me that ‘everything came back alright; it should only be a couple of weeks’.

In the nearly four months that I have been waiting since making application, I have become aware that NJ Statute specifies an approval or denial be issued within 30 days. I have also become aware of other first-time applicants, such as myself, who submitted paperwork after my application date of 10/40/01, but have received their FID and permits weeks ago, before mine. Therefore, I can deduce that there is some delay locally that is affecting the process.

I would be grateful for any insight on where this delay is, why it exists, and whom I must contact to correct it, so as to expedite the already overdue permits.

Thank you in advance, for your much needed assistance.

Sincerely,
Robert Kreisler
Newark FOP Shield 109xx
 
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