I recently acquired a Pre-64 Winchester model 70 that seems to have a unique history. It left the factory as a .243 Winchester in a heavy barrel contour but sometime early in its life it was re-bored and rifled to .25 caliber and chambered in 25-06 Improved (Ackley). I was able to caste the chamber and bore today, confirming a .257 bore, 25-06 Ackley Improved chamber, and measured the twist rate twice at 1 turn in 12". The barrel is stamped 26.06 IMP directly after the factory .243 Winchester marking and underneath the barrel in the same stamp font is the gunsmiths mark/stamp of 25 VP 12. The 25 stands for .25 caliber, the 12 for the twist rate, and I am assuming VP is the gunsmith who performed the work. Now I am just trying to figure out who VP is, are any of you familiar with this gunsmiths markings? The serial number for the receiver is from 1956 and the barrel is stamped 56 from the factory under the barrel as well, confirming the year and that the barrel is original to the rifle. The rifle also has a Canjar 70-1 trigger and Fajen stock. I purchased the rifle in NY from a man who had just recently acquired it himself locally, if the region may be of some assistance. So just trying to piece together the history of this great rifle and would appreciate any help.
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Need help identifying gunsmith stamp "VP"
- Thread starter boltgun71
- Start date
mapsjanhere
New member
Are you sure on the 1-12 twist? The 243 Win was originally 1-10, and there's hardly enough room in a 243 barrel to completely bore out the rifling and put in a new one in 257, unless the rifling is very shallow. And 1-12 doesn't stabilize a lot of bullets for 257.
mapsjanhere
New member
It's just odd that someone would use a 1-10 Winchester 243 barrel, completely drill out the rifling, and then still be able to cut grooves for a 257 bullet. Plus a lot of work instead of just putting in a new 257 barrel and selling the old one. If it would be the original twist you could see someone just running the right tool through the barrel and deepening the grooves on the 243.
Not unusual at all for mid-1900's gunsmiths to rebore and rifle a barrel instead of simply replacing it. Many gunsmiths had the machinery to do so and either were gunsmiths during world war 2 or trained by ones that were. Those gunsmiths had no access to new barrels during the war and learned to modify the factory barrels. A reboring job was half the price of a new barrel which was incredibly important for a time when the average hourly wage was around a dollar. There are a few smiths that still offer reboring today.
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Jim Watson
New member
Had an old Gun Digest article by a guy who wanted a 6mm Rem on a Win M70.
So he had a well used .220 Swift rebored.
So a .243 to .25-06 AI seems a reasonable project... 50 years ago.
There are still specialists doing Smokeless reboring.
So he had a well used .220 Swift rebored.
So a .243 to .25-06 AI seems a reasonable project... 50 years ago.
There are still specialists doing Smokeless reboring.
Jim Watson
New member
Interesting.
I know Colt has applied the (triangle) VP for Verified Proof since 1904, never heard of a Violent Proof.
I know Colt has applied the (triangle) VP for Verified Proof since 1904, never heard of a Violent Proof.
Jim Watson
New member
There is no proof law or proof house in Pennsylvania. Or the rest of the USA.
Proof testing is whatever the manufacturer thinks will limit his liability.
Few gunsmiths would proof test for something as straightforward as reboring a bolt action.
Proof testing is whatever the manufacturer thinks will limit his liability.
Few gunsmiths would proof test for something as straightforward as reboring a bolt action.
"Not unusual at all for mid-1900's gunsmiths to rebore and rifle a barrel instead of simply replacing it. Many gunsmiths had the machinery to do so ..."
Well, not many. Barrel boring and rifling machinery was/is darned uncommon and expensive and very few ordinary gunsmiths had that equipment. What was normally done, then as now, was to send the work to specialists, but to leave the customer with the impression that the gunsmith did the work himself.
Jim
Well, not many. Barrel boring and rifling machinery was/is darned uncommon and expensive and very few ordinary gunsmiths had that equipment. What was normally done, then as now, was to send the work to specialists, but to leave the customer with the impression that the gunsmith did the work himself.
Jim
Here is a possibility for the V.P. stamp.
P.O. Ackley had a shop foreman named John W. Van Patten. He moved to ****ord Pa. and had a rifling machine that was built while he still worked for Parker. He incorporated in PA. in 1953 as J. W. Van Patten Gunsmith.
That puts him in the right area at the right time and the connection to the A.I. Cartridge family.
P.O. Ackley had a shop foreman named John W. Van Patten. He moved to ****ord Pa. and had a rifling machine that was built while he still worked for Parker. He incorporated in PA. in 1953 as J. W. Van Patten Gunsmith.
That puts him in the right area at the right time and the connection to the A.I. Cartridge family.
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SHR970, Thank you, that is just the type of lead I was looking for. The type of work done, his connection to Ackley, and location all point to him being a strong contender for the gunsmith who performed the job on my rifle. A quick internet search of him shows him to be a highly regarded gunsmith of his time who did a-lot of reboring work.