Need help "gifting a gun"

[tom98390]

In washington state I have been told that it is ok to gift somone a pistol if they are under the age of 21. This seems very odd to me becuase when you sell a pistol, in washington state, you have to get it registered under the person who is buying it name. Can somone explain this too me.


Do you guys know if gifting of a pistol to somone under the age of 21 is ok. I just wish that I could just buy it myself. I think I am mature enough to handle the responsablity of pistol ownership. I mean I can go die for the US but cant buy a pistol seems alittle backwards too me. Any light you could shed on this would be great. Thanks for your time

Jason

 

[cpaspr]

Worm can is now open.

First off, I am not an attorney. Keep that in mind. Nevertheless, consider the following:

Having your friend buy it for you, when you cannot legally buy it yourself, is called a straw purchase. I believe you will find that it is a felony.

Under the circumstances, which include that you just admitted to what appears to be a straw purchase, wait till you are 21 to touch that gun again.

Maybe consult an attorney to determine if you in fact, broke any laws. They can advise you appropriately.

And wait till you are 21 to purchase another.

 

[CDH]

Finaly I had one of my very close friends buy one for me, as I am only 20.

That's all you needed to post right there.

"Freeze! You're under arrest. Turn around, put your hands above your head and spread your legs. You have the right to remain silent, you have a right to an attorney. If you can't afford one, one will be appointed by the court... "

That's usually along the lines of something you'll hear if it's discovered that you are a party in the strawman purchase of a gun.

Carter

Edit: Hey man, lighten up. If you can't take some minor (sic) humor, you may not want to be messing with guns.
To answer your gifting question directly: No. Any laws regarding purchase and possession are going to apply to gifting as well. If you can't purchase a pistol at a certain age, then you can't be given one at that age either. However, it is likely that your friend would be the one to take the fall rather than you.
I feel your pain, sir. I have had guns since I was around 12 years old, and often was "unsupervised" while down at the nearby sandpit making tin cans dance and vaporizing my mother's clothespins. No one cared; we were just kids having some harmless fun. You say that at your age, you are responsible enough to handle guns. Well, at 12 years old, I was responsible enough to handle guns.
Unfortunately, those days are gone forever.

Lastly, I don't Edit posts to CHANGE the meaning of what I've said. I will edit, however, to add or clarify information. The problem with changing a previous post is that people who read subsequent posts based on your original post have no clue about what's going on.
So here's your edit fer' 'ya.

Cheers

 

[tom98390]

I see what you are trying to say. But in I also said that never have the gun with me it is always with the person who bought it. I have never helf the gun in my hand when he is not in eye sight of me. In fact the only times I have ever touched the gun is when I was shooting at the range with the person. So you the way I said it made it seem wrong so let me make myself more clear. I gave my friend some money so he could purchace a gun so that when we went shooting together I could use a gun. So it is his gun 100% but he lets me use it when we are shooting together. So as far as that goes im pretty sure I am safe on this one. Now about the gifting?

CDH I have edited my post could you please do the same.

Jason

 

[rezmedic54]

Gifting a Gun

Here in Az. if it is privite sale of a hand gun you need to be at least 18 from an FFL you need to be 21. 18 for a rifle or shotgun. If you have your friend buy you one from an FFL it is a felany punishable by up to 10 years in the grey bar and a 250,000 fine or both. Call your local ATF office and ask them what you are asking here then you'lll get hopefully the right answer. Be Safe Out There Kurt

 

[springmom]

IANAL. I do not play one on TV or here, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night. That said....

...your parents could buy one and give it to you for Christmas or whatever. You could *have* it, in your house, but you could not buy ammunition for it and you could *never* take it out of the house except to go to the range with your parents.

If a friend does this for you someone will see this as a straw purchase, as Carter vividly pointed out (and correctly pointed out).

What can I say? Life is not fair. When you're 21 you can buy what you want. Meanwhile, ask for one for Christmas from Santa Mom and Santa Dad

Springmom

 

[Venison_Jerkey32]

See what I don't understand, in Texas you can get a CHL when you are 18, but you can't purchase a gun? I heard that you can buy one in a private sale, but I think that is just rumor.

When I mean 18, I thought there was an exception where if you had a valid military Id you could get it when you are 18, can't find it right now though...perhaps I'm wrong

Packing.org isn't working right now, but I'll find the source later..

 

[Majic]

I gave my friend some money so he could purchace a gun so that when we went shooting together I could use a gun.

By you giving the friend the money to purchase the gun and you using it is where the straw purchase comes into effect. When your friend checked the yes box beside the I am the actual buyer on the form he was wrong because you provided the money.

 

[springmom]

No. A person must be 21 to have a CHL.

Springmom

 

[Mal H]

I gave my friend some money so he could purchace [sic] a gun ...

You and your friend both broke the law in every state of the Union including Vermont, the most liberal of states gunwise. Your age has nothing to do with it.

Are you sure you want this thread to remain in public view?

 

[westphoenix]

If you can't purchase a pistol at a certain age, then you can't be given one at that age either.

I don't know about that. To the best of my knowledge in Arizona you can privately purchase a handgun if you are over the age of 18. But you must be 21 years old to purchase a handgun from a dealer. I contacted the local police before I purchased my handgun when I turned 18. They told me there was no law against someone 18 years old possesing a handgun. I bought the pistol and carried. I was stopped once for a California stop (yielding for a stop sign). The officer that pulled me over was aware of the firearm (sitting on the seat without a holster) and my age. He didn't even bother to pull me out of the vehicle or think twice about the gun.

I believe I also read about this in the Arizona Gun Owners Guide by Alan Korwin.
http://www.gunlaws.com/agog.htm

Sorry: rezmedic54 I didn't see your post

So this may vary state-to-state.
I believe your purchase is considered a straw purchase. The purchaser of the firearm bought it specifically to pass it onto you. Check your local laws about your possesion of the pistol. Check your local laws about purchasing of handguns through private citizens.

Pickup this book and do some reading:
http://www.gunlaws.com/books2.htm
Check your local book stores, like Barnes and Noble.

 

[westphoenix]

By you giving the friend the money to purchase the gun and you using it is where the straw purchase comes into effect. When your friend checked the yes box beside the I am the actual buyer on the form he was wrong because you provided the money.

I could be wrong but I don't believe it matters who provided the money. It matters whom the firearm is being purchased for. Now if someone wants to buy me a gun as a gift they can give me the money and let me make the purchase. This is not a straw purchase because you are not purchasing the firearm to give to someone else. I don't know how the law would look at this, but if you came across a good deal. You might be able to loan your friend the money for him to purchase the firearm. He owns and posses the firearm. You never have sole custody of the firearm. Once you can legally own the firearm he could give you the firearm as repayment for the loan. This may not be legal as far as the purchase goes, but I don't know how you could ever be caught as you are never in possession of the firearm without the legal owner being present. I guess the way I think of it is; who is going to actually possess the firearm. The law is written so the firearm does not fall into the hands of someone who should not own the firearm.

Until you find out if you can legally possess the firearm I suggest you return it to the legal purchaser.

 

[shield20]

We see this alot, so let's check out some sources..

Federal law prohibits an FFL from selling a handgun or handgun ammunition to anyone under age 21,.... [18 USC § 922(b)(1)].
A non-licensee is prohibited from selling a handgun or handgun ammunition to anyone under age 18 [19 USC § 922(x)].

Washington State:
http://www.co.benton.wa.us/concealed_pistol_license.htm
Carrying Handguns:
State law requires you to have a valid concealed pistol license before you carry a handgun concealed on your person. Persons within their home, their fixed place of business, members of gun collecting or shooting clubs going to and from their gun shows or places of target practice are exempt.

...http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=WA
Unless one of the above exceptions applies, a person under 21, but at least 18, may possess a pistol only in his place of abode, fixed place of business, or on real property under his control.
A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his person without a license to carry a concealed weapon. A person may carry concealed without a license in his place of abode or fixed place of business.
A person at least 18 years old who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave it in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

How to apply for a CPL
You must be 21 years of age or older.



SO, it seems fedral law allows you to buy the gun privately from someone. State law allows you to possess it in your home, but NOT to carry it. Buying/getting a pistol from a private person/non-dealer appears legal, but straw purchases aren't. What distinquishes one from the other - beats me!?

 

[TheGrouch]

No. A person must be 21 to have a CHL.

Springmom

Indiana issues a permit to carry a handgun at age 18. You need to have a parent sign off on the application. Then you can carry any handgun regardless of who purchased it.

 

[ATW525]

I could be wrong but I don't believe it matters who provided the money.

It matters. The person who provides the money is the actual buyer.

From Form 4473:
WARNING - The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling
out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift.
Any individual who is not buying the firearms for himself or herself or as a
gift, but who completes this form, violates the law. Example: Mr. Smith
asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr.
Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out this form, he will
violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys a firearm with his own money
to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully
complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an
individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift
violates the law by maintaining a false ATF 4473.

 

[shield20]

Wow - found this...
which seems to match "or as a gift" in the above post.


From the GCA 1968

"STRAW PURCHASES"

Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use "straw purchasers"...

This article does not purport to cover sales to persons who purchase firearms with the intent of making gifts of such firearms to other persons. In instances such as this, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records.

 

[westphoenix]

It matters. The person who provides the money is the actual buyer.

From Form 4473:
WARNING - The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling
out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift.
Any individual who is not buying the firearms for himself or herself or as a
gift, but who completes this form, violates the law. Example: Mr. Smith
asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr.
Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out this form, he will
violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys a firearm with his own money
to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully
complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an
individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift
violates the law by maintaining a false ATF 4473.

This situation is not what I described. Mr. Smith is giving Mr. Jones the money to purchase the firearm for ownership by Mr. Smith. This is a straw purchase. If Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money to purchase the firearm for ownership by Mr. Jones this is not a straw purchase. I guess I should have been more clear on what I meant by who provides the money. It does matter who provides the money, but only if the person providing the money, but does not complete the paperwork ends up with ownership of the firearm - straw purchase.

 

[ATW525]

This situation is not what I described. Mr. Smith is giving Mr. Jones the money to purchase the firearm for ownership by Mr. Smith. This is a straw purchase. If Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money to purchase the firearm for ownership by Mr. Jones this is not a straw purchase. I guess I should have been more clear on what I meant by who provides the money. It does matter who provides the money, but only if the person providing the money, but does not complete the paperwork ends up with ownership of the firearm - straw purchase.

I get you, and that's right. As long as Mr. Jones is buying the gun for himself it doesn't matter where the money for the gun came from. The origin of the money only matters if Mr. Jones is buying with the intention of giving it to Mr. Smith.

On a side note, if Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones both went into the shop together and Mr. Smith put down the money while Mr. Jones filled out the paperwork, then many reputable shops would refuse the sale to be on the safe side.

 

[Venison_Jerkey32]

This is from a Texas concealed carry place. It also says that the fee is half price for military people, which packing.org says is true also. They may be wrong, but that is where I got the idea you could get a CHL at 18. So, if this is true, can you carry a gun? If so, how do you buy one?

Who is Now Eligibile for Classes?
A person who is at least 18 years old but not yet 21 years old if the person is a member or veteran of the US armed forces, including members or veterans of the reserve or national guard

Source

 

[westphoenix]

So, if this is true, can you carry a gun? If so, how do you buy one?

You buy one through private sale (non-FFL dealer).
If legal in your state.