Need help deciding...

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StukaJU87

New member
The wife and I have been toying around with the idea of getting an inexpensive 9mm pistol for walking in the woods. We've narrowed the field down to two: EAA Witness P and Citadel 1911, both under $300.

My wife likes the upgrades of the Citadel, but the weight of the Witness.
I'm torn between both and from what little I've read so far, it seems like we'd be happy with either one.

So here's my dilemma. Which one would you buy and why? What are their pros and cons?

P.S. As much as I'd like to get them both, the budget allows for only one.
 
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Sevens

New member
To be honest, I'd hold on to my cash rather than buy either of these. I figure if your budget is stuck dead at $300... don't buy it, skip a few meals out, and up the budget a bit.

On each:
Tanfoglio is a decent company that can make decent guns, they've been at it for a long time and I own one that I absolutely love -- but it goes for about twice the money you're talking about. I'm not intimately familiar with the Witness P, but in my experience-- if I'm going down the road of a polymer framed handgun, I'm simply going to choose something that is absolutely rock-solid proven. The one thing that almost everyone can readily agree on is that EAA is horrendous if you have to deal with a warranty issue, and that the Witness P is one of the absolute cheapest in their line.

The Citadel I would absolutely skip for certain, simply because I hold very closely the idea that a 1911 is a very old tech design that can ABSOLUTELY become just a phenomenal handgun, but not at this price point.

If I'm stuck choosing between the two of them, I'll begrudgingly take the EAA Witness P. But I'd rather pause, pile up a bit more money, and buy a better gun. And frankly, I would be shopping for a gun from the used market, but I suppose I'm a bit more comfortable in doing that than some may be.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I do hope it helps a bit. If you can find a Smith & Wesson 5906, especially some manner of a former LE duty gun, you can end up with one heckuva solid, absolutely enjoyable gun for literally a few dollars more than the $300 you're looking at.
 
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Sevens

New member
Now these are all used, but I have hands-on experience and many rounds through examples of each of these, and I still own 3 of the 4.


With this, you get HISTORY along with performance and value:
http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-39-2.html
This is a pleasure all around. Not hi-cap, but a fantastic design that stood the test of time. Over 400,000 of these were made and sold and it was the basis for all of the S&W semi-auto handguns before they went polymer & 1911. Because they made -SO MANY- for so many years, and because it's a little heavy compared to today's polymer guns and it only holds 8+1, these guns simply don't have a lot of collector "value" or demand. A genuine sleeper on the used market -- a heap of gun for low money. I paid more for mine, but it's a bit nicer than this one.

Maybe the easiest gun to re-sell if you end up not liking it:
http://summitgunbroker.com/glock-19.html
Arguably the best polymer handgun ever built & sold, if you go by the numbers. A Glock 19 is like having cash in your pocket. Somebody always wants one, they're always in demand. Accessory shopping gets no easier.

Here is one of human history's ugliest ever handguns:
http://summitgunbroker.com/ruger-p95dc.html
Also happens to be one of the toughest, no-nonsense "live forever" machines. I have one myself and I think I paid $225 for it. It's horrendous to look at, but I'd choose it over the two subject guns, and it's significantly lower in price than your limit! :eek:

But here is the one I'd buy with your $300, after saving a few more bucks:
http://summitgunbroker.com/5906.html
That's a fantastic example of a phenomenal handgun. That one is in better shape than my own. Hi-cap, will run forever and you'll enjoy all of it.
 
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StukaJU87

New member
Thank you for the reply. You bring up valid points and I wasn't aware of complaints about their warranty.

I'm usually not a fan of "plastic" firearms but we were thinking we'd just get something "cheap" and that way it wouldn't be such a big deal if it got "beat up" while we were out in the woods.
 
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leadcounsel

Moderator
Understand that $300 is the basement price for a gun as they can't be made for much less than that and still be profitable.

The EAA may be a fine gun, as may be the Citadel. You should also look at used S&W Generation 3 models 5900 series, 6900 series, the 39, etc. Advice on the Ruger P series is good too. The Turkish Canik clones of the CZs are supposed to be excellent. Used Glocks are a good buy sometimes as low as $300 but rarely.

Honest advice is to save a bit more and widen your price range to $400 or even $450. Opens up a wide array of possibilities.
 
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10-96

New member
I did just a quick search on the Arcus 9mm (for sale through J&G Sales.com). They seem to be quite similar to the Browning High-Power except current models are DA/SA. Nobody had anything particularly bad to say about them that I saw- and they are in your budget range.
 
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Sabrewolfe

New member
I would also suggest taking a look at the guns Canik 55 is making. All the reviewers I'm seeing that get one absolutely adore them. And as most seem to be running in the $350 range, the price is excellent.
 
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marine6680

New member
If the budget is fixed...

I hear good things about the Tristar CZ clones... they run around $350. All metal pistol though, so it adds weight.


The S&W SDVE line is around $300 and is by all accounts a very reliable and well made pistol for the money.


Then there is the Canik TP-9... plouffedaddy did a review. Its not the only positive review I have seen, so it seems a good option.

Just remember firearms owners can be Luddites a bit... A vein of misoneism as it were... "unproven" is the battle cry. So you may hear a few dissenting opinions on the Canik.


Ruger's SR line may be an option as well.


A used Glock may fit in the budget... but I notice many people seem to think they are gold and charge near new retail price.


There are also many options in the $500 range that would be very good. The aforementioned Glock, or a M&P
 
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StukaJU87

New member
Glocks were the first pistols we ruled out followed by the M&P. We thought a Glock would be perfect but Glocks just aren't comfortable to us and my wife didn't like the M&P.

My wife and I don't like compact pistols and grip comfort is just as important to us as reliability so we are kind of limited to what our LGS has in stock.

The only reason we considered the EAA Witness and the Citadel 1911 was because we liked how comfortable they were. We also looked at the Sar Arms b6p and while it felt very comfortable in the hand, we found the slide to be too skinny for us to properly grasp.

Since Glocks and compacts are the "fad" right now at our LGS, excluding them and revolvers eliminates about 95% of the handguns they carry.

We already own more expensive handguns we could use, we just don't want to subject them to the conditions of our woods more than we need to.
 
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marine6680

New member
I find the M&P very comfortable when I change the backstrap to the one I like...


Search online, and you may find some of the ones I mentioned. Something like the SDVE or Canik are cheap and can handle a little dirt... and being cheap means you don't feel bad about it.


There are a few options out there.

The Witness would probably be my choice if forced between the two you mentioned.
 
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StukaJU87

New member
I never thought about it but during the summer it is a little like Dagobah.:D

There's about 5 acres of wooded area with a large creek on our property that we are trying to clean up. The woods are full of high brush and vines large enough to play Tarzan. Plus, the humidity is around 80%.
 
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gyvel

New member
If it doesn't absolutely have to be 9mm Parabellum, consider the CZ 82 in 9x18 caliber. The gun can be had for under $300.00, is all steel and is somewhat more compact than the two examples you mentioned. They're drying up pretty quick, though, so at least check one out soon.

Another choice in 9mm P for under 300 bucks is the CZ 88 available from EAA. It is basically a compact Tokarev in 9mm with a slide safety (not some rigged aftermarket thing). It is what I like to refer to as a "Tokarev Commander."

Based on my own personal experiences with several different guns made in Turkey, I would avoid them. YMMV
 
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RX-79G

Moderator
The SAR B6P is perhaps nicer than the EAA for a polymer CZ clone, and $250 from CDNN.

Sarco has used DP-51s for $275. Sold now as "Lionheart LH9" for $600.

Arcus.
 
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DA/SA Fan

New member
I really like my Turkish made TriStar. There are very few bad reviews that I have run across. No more, maybe less than for some pretty lofty name brands. I think the Caniks and other Turkish made guns are generally a lot of gun for the money. I own 1 and I intend to get at least 2 or 3 more. I have no problem recommending a firearm from the Canik55 factory. They can be had cheap enough to be beaters or you can find aftermarket parts to build a really nice shooter if you wanted. Other than that, I would look for the ugliest cheapest 9x18 Makarov type surplus pistol that you could find.
 
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TfflHndn

New member
I don't know why some have panned the Citadel. I own one and it is a very good gun. Absolutely reliable. The only thing I don't like about it is fixed sights, but they are nearly dead-on at 30 feet (about an inch and a half left of point of aim). Inexpensive, yes. But solid and a good shooter. I don't think you can go wrong there.
 
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Marty8613

New member
I have a Witness P-F .45. 4.5" Love it.

My targets are one ragged hole out to 30 feet. I have had 0 issues with it. Not one FTF, FTE, nothing. Eats everything. Has no corrosion issues like my other carry guns.

Maybe I got lucky. Reading the blasts out there, it is the 10mm having issues for the most part.

This gun is pretty much the same size as a CZ-75 in .45.

I have only one complaint. It cycles a little slow.

For the use you indicate though, I would not use the P, I would go for the steel frame.

To me a woods gun is a revolver or a reliable 10mm auto. Witness 10mm has a horrible track record, even in steel.
 
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marine6680

New member
The polymer should hold up well. It can not get surface rusting like steel can.

The internal parts are what matters though. As surface rust is cosmetic, but internal rust left untreated or undiscovered can lead to bad things...

Many poly guns... Mostly ones that are striker fired, tend to have simpler designs in the frame, so its easier to protect against issues. Simply because wiping them out and getting parts oiled properly is a little simpler...

But it is mostly a byproduct of the striker design.

The frame helps in that you do not need to pay it any special attention and grip panels and places that can hide water are fewer.

The simpler designs like glock are very good, even detailed disassembly is pretty easy and required few tools. So a dunk in a mud puddle can be cleaned easily.
 
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