Need advice for my first AR-15 buy

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vertigo7

New member
Ok gang, I found a sweet M4gery-style shorty .223 carbine at a local gun shop, and I'm seriously considering buying it for home defense and a little target shooting at the local gun range. I didn't get many details from the dealer during my first visit, but I can tell you the lower receiver is from American Spirit Arms. A little checking at AR15.com and an email to the company told me every lower they make is post-ban. I didn't notice any manufacturing stamps on the upper, so I don't know if it was sold as a completed weapon with the post-ban lower, or if it was assembled later. From the brief chance I got to examine the carbine, I didn't see a bayo lug or a flash hider, but I didn't check the barrel for threads. The dealer offered me a single 30rd mag to go with it, and I didn't see any govt / LEO markings on it.

What items do I need to look for / ask about / get in writing to make sure I'm safely within the law on this purchase?

A related topic... a different local gunshop offered me a FAL .308 rifle for the same price as the carbine described above, with a 15rd mag. If you had your choice, which would you take and why?

Thanks for helping out the FNG on the block :)

vertigo7
 
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Ewok_Guy

New member
The Ar-15 would be cheaper to shoot and is definatley more compact than any FAL.
If CQB is your game, AR-15 is the name. :p
 
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1goodshot

New member
ASA has there basic carbine on sale here in Phx for about $720, that seems like a good price for a gun with a life time warranty.
 
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Noban

New member
May I ask what the asking price is? If it's in the $700 range, then I recommend you look into a Bushmaster. You know you'll be getting a complete factory assembled weapon that is top quality. With the mixmaster you described, it may be that bubba put it together with socket wrenches and chisels. If you are not familiar with the AR series, you may not know (nor may the dealer) if the ASA has been modified, thus voiding any warranties.

It just makes better sense to me to go for a new, factory built and guaranteed rifle for your first time around.

Noban
 
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vertigo7

New member
His asking price was $750 out the door for the carbine, one 30rd mag and a case of ammo, quantity / manufacturer unspecified. I've heard great things about Bushmaster, and I've been looking at their stuff too.
 
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MuzzleBlast

New member
As far as legalities, if it isn't marked Law Enforcement Only, then as far as the feds go you are good. Some states and cities are more moronic than others (CA, MA, NY, etc.), so you might check with a prosecutor or lawyer for local restrictions
 
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Jason280

New member
What Noban said can apply to ANY AR, not just an ASA. Every AR manufacturer out there offers parts kits gun, so any "Bubba" can order and assemble Bushmasters, DPMS, Rock Rivers, etc. Most uppers won't have any specific markings, except maybe on the barrel. For example, Bushmaster uppers have "B MP 5 56 NATO" stamped on the top of their barrels, while "DPMS" is found on the underside of DPMS barrels (to indicate DPMS upper). On the other hand, my Rock River has nothing marked on the barrel or the upper to say who made it. I wouldn't exactly be too concerned whether your gun came complete or not, because most reputable gun shops will offer your money back (in store trading) if there is a problem with the gun. Ask the dealer if he would be willing to agree to this with you.

Also, you can actually contact ASA, give them the gun's serial number, and they will be able to tell you how it left the factory (whether it left as a complete gun or as a lower only). $750 out the door with a case of ammo isn't a bad deal, as long as the gun is in good-excellent shape. Most of the new DPMS AR's are going for $700 new, and the Bushy's for $800 new. I can't really see the benefit of buying a new one over a used one, especially if you can save $100-150.

The AR is a great target/plinking/fun gun, and I would definitely recommend it over a .308 FAL. The AR is much more compact, and the ammo is much cheaper (with no recoil).

Hope this helps!
 
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Swamp Yankee

New member
I have an ASA 9mm Flat Top and love it. The workmanship and fit are first class.
As to mixing and matching uppers as long as their all Mil-Spec there shouldn't be an issue. Do you trust the Dealer your working with? If so, then it doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.
Check out ASA, the people I spoke with when I wanted to order the 9MM were very helpful and responsive. Their website is
www.gunkits.com
Take Care
 
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Commander Fan

New member
ARs are very fun and economical to shoot. They are also capable of great accuracy. One of my DPMS rifles has gotten 5-shots@100yd groups in the .240" range.

I currently own 5 1/2(need another lower for the one upper) AR15s, most are built from DPMS parts. I really prefer the non-chrome-lined barrels for accuracy.

With Black Hills Ammunition selling for as low as $7/per 50, you just can't find a cheaper way to put center-fire ammo downrange, aside from reloading.

Also, the light recoil allows very long range sessions. And I doubt you can find another firearm(aside from the 1911) with so many aftermarket parts choices.

The FAL is also a valuable rifle. But I just have no need for one right now. With a 6X45(.223 necked up to 6mm) barrel I can legally hunt whitetails in my state. You can also use standard magazines and bolt. Only the barrel's chamber and bore are different. It has brought excellant results using Barnes-X bullets, and all being one-shot kills.

Good Luck
 
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Redlg155

New member
You mentioned the rifle would also have a role as a home defense weapon. Touching off a 7.62mm round will not be very nice at all!:eek: I would go with the AR.

As for the price it isn't a bad price, nor is it a really good deal either. $50 bucks more gets you a nice Bushmaster. I've heard too many things about bad customer service with ASA over at AR15.com. That makes me very leery about purchasing one.

Good Shooting
RED
 
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MPH

New member
I have an ASA lower on one of my ARs. Would reccomend these to anyone as fit, finish and overall appearance was excellent. Upper is probably one of ASAs. Sounds like a fair price.
As for the FAL, if it's a Hesse, it's a dice shoot. Sometimes, you end up with a troublefree one, other times naught. Fit and finish seem to lack the care and attention of a good parts gun buildup.
 
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vertigo7

New member
I went back today to take another look at the carbine. I asked the owner if I could take a look at it, and he walked over and stood in front of it. He asked me why I wanted to look at it, and I said I just wanted to have ASA run the serial number for me and find out if that particular lower was sold by itself or as a complete weapon. He got jittery and said "I'm sure it's fine." Warning bells went off in my head. ("Danger Will Robinson!") :eek: I gave him my best "of course I believe you" smile and said "You and I both know it's probably fine, but BATF will want proof in writing if they ever knock on my door, and I'm sure ASA will be happy to furnish that for me once I give them the serial number." He just about jumped out of his skin at the mention of the B word. By then I decided he'd given me more than enough reasons to say no to the sale, so I made an excuse and left quickly.

Looks like I get to buy a new Bushy after all :D
 
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sleeping dog

New member
Whether the lower receiver was bought by itself or as a complete rifle is probably not too important. It's easy to assemble a lower properly. All you need is a socket wrench and a chisel. And a hammer. Oh, and a torque wrench and funny spanner for the extension tube. I put mine together from an Armalite/Eagle receiver and an Armalite lower kit with 2-stage trigger. I had the upper made by a smith with ties to Rock River Arms because the upper takes tools and skills to get right.

If you get a FAL, I don't think you have any way of knowing about the history of its assembly, teardown, reassembly, parts coming and going. Still, I would like to get one someday.

Both bullets are fun, and economical if you get a reloading setup. The AR15 is a little cheaper as far as ammo, lots of surplus stuff available. Neither is very good at home defense - if you miss the bad guy, either bullet may go through neighbors' walls. Get the rifle that you like, then get a shotgun w/ #4 Buckshot for the home.

Regards.
 
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Ollie Krag

New member
If its a choice between an AR in 5.56mm or a FAL in 308 I would go with the FAL. I carried one two years in South Afrika and loved it. I carried a M-16 in Vietnam and would destroy mine as soon as I could lay hands on a SKS or AK-47. 5.56 is a fun round for shooting rats at a villiage dump but to me its not a round to bet your life on. Go with the FAL.
 
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TaxPhd

New member
Vertigo7,

You stated:

"A little checking at AR15.com and an email to the company told me every lower they make is post-ban."

If this is correct then how it left the factory is a non-issue. It could not have legally left the factory in assault weapon configuration, as all ASA lowers are post-ban.

If it is currently assembled in assault weapon configuration (flash hider, bayo lug, collapsible stock), it is illegal. Otherwise it is OK.
 
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