Need a 30-30 load
- Thread starter Wendyj
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Geezerbiker
New member
You can try some different bullets. Some rifles like heavier or lighter bullets. Maybe try some 130's or 170g bullets.
Some people have had good results with Hornady lever evolution bullets. With a bolt gun, I'd suggest trying to seat the bullets out further but lever action rifles need to have the bullets crimped in at the groove and that nixes that option.
That said, you may have a rifle that just won't shoot as well as you want...
Tony
Some people have had good results with Hornady lever evolution bullets. With a bolt gun, I'd suggest trying to seat the bullets out further but lever action rifles need to have the bullets crimped in at the groove and that nixes that option.
That said, you may have a rifle that just won't shoot as well as you want...
Tony
FrankenMauser
New member
That load should work. I'd suspect the rifle. But, you know more than I, about said rifle.
The best load I have run through mine:
150 gr Speer HCRN (discontinued, but the same seating depth works for the Speer and Hornady 150 FPs)
32.5 gr IMR4895
WLR primer
FC brass (also tested safe in MY R-P, Win, and W-W brass)
2.545" COAL
Shoots wonderful little bug holes from my '69 336, and about 1-1/4" from a new 336W. ...Even though it's the "wrong" powder for the cartridge.
The best load I have run through mine:
150 gr Speer HCRN (discontinued, but the same seating depth works for the Speer and Hornady 150 FPs)
32.5 gr IMR4895
WLR primer
FC brass (also tested safe in MY R-P, Win, and W-W brass)
2.545" COAL
Shoots wonderful little bug holes from my '69 336, and about 1-1/4" from a new 336W. ...Even though it's the "wrong" powder for the cartridge.
William T. Watts
New member
long ago I went with the 170gr SP flat nose Partition using either IMR4895 (preferred) or IMR4064 as my #2 choice, either one has grouped well in any 30/30 I've owned!! William
If your Marlin shoots within four inches at 100 yards, I don't think you have a problem. These are not target rifles.
There are so many Gun writers and Internet posters who claim sub MOA out of their lever actions that when your Marlin won't group similarly small groups, you think something is wrong. I think Gunwriters are liars and shills, and they deliberately don't fire enough rounds to determine inherent accuracy. Most internet posters are just following the group think, which is the expectation that all rifles and shooters are sub MOA. This is also a lie. These guys are not posting 10 or 20 shot groups, the three round groups they post (if they post) are statistical aberrations that you would expect with small sample sizes. That is another reason gun writers don't shoot ten or 20 shot groups. Chance and small group sizes it makes it easier to claim a higher degree of accuracy than actually exists. These guys shoot a number of three shot groups, toss out the bad ones, claim the smaller groups represent the inherent accuracy of the weapon. The worst part of the thing, is not only are they lying to the world, they are lying to themselves.
I shot hundreds of rounds through my Marlin 336 in load development and the better ones were around four inches, but the really bad combinations would not hold on an 8.5" X 11" sheet of paper.
These were the best two loads, and they are between 2MOA and 3 MOA for a ten shot group. Do not copy my powder charges, my chamber was huge and all my charges are over reloading manual maximums. The velocities were book, so I concluded I had a big chamber. I do think the same powders will work well in some one elses rifle.
I took the rifle to CMP Talladega and shot it at 200 yards. With the best load it will hold the ten ring and shoots around 2 MOA at distance. That is about all I will get out of it with its best ammunition.
This was a recommended load, it shot well, but it strung the group up and down. That is a 7.9 inch group at 200 yards.
This is my best load, it will consistently shoot round groups and hold the ten ring.
I tried factory 150 grain Remington, the first shots were from a fouled barrel and placed high. I continued to shoot without adjusting anything, wanting a group size, and the group went down into the bull. I think this is actually pretty good except for the early shots.
As a class, lever actions are so inaccurate that the Range Officers at CMP Talladega won't let you shoot at 300 yards if you can't keep all shots in the black at 200 yards. And they unequivocally won't let you shoot at the 600 yard targets. Can't blame them. The marksmanship skills of the average American is pretty abysmal. A bud of mine works at an indoor range. They have a 25 yard rifle range, but before you are allowed to shoot, you must demonstrate your ability to shoot accurately. The standard is an 18" X 18" target at 25 feet. You have to hit the 25 foot target. Bud claims the vast majority (I think he said 80%) are unable to hit the 25 foot target with a rifle!.
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Man! If you can not hit an 18" X 18" target at 25 feet, you need supervised lessons or shouldn't be handling firearms until said shooter gets lessons.
Slamfire, that is some pretty good shooting with the 30-30, especially at 200 yards. Honestly, I don't think most "gun writers" shoot the 30-30 very much at all to give it a true evaluation. Probably only Brian Pierce of "Handloading" magazine does.
Slamfire, that is some pretty good shooting with the 30-30, especially at 200 yards. Honestly, I don't think most "gun writers" shoot the 30-30 very much at all to give it a true evaluation. Probably only Brian Pierce of "Handloading" magazine does.
VoodooMountain
New member
Wendy,
Were you using iron sights or scope?
How familiar are you with this rifle?
How good are you with iron sights?
Semi buckhorn and a thick front post do not lend itself to much accuracy.
If this was from a scoped gun I would recommend going to a speer 170 grain. Hornady 170 is also good. The scope rings or base could even be to blame.
I would also recommend buying a couple boxes of ammo to play with and that will give you something me data points.
Were you using iron sights or scope?
How familiar are you with this rifle?
How good are you with iron sights?
Semi buckhorn and a thick front post do not lend itself to much accuracy.
If this was from a scoped gun I would recommend going to a speer 170 grain. Hornady 170 is also good. The scope rings or base could even be to blame.
I would also recommend buying a couple boxes of ammo to play with and that will give you something me data points.
I have a Winchester I am familier with but it's saved for horseback with open sights. This is a Marlin or Remlin if you prefer. New to me. Scope is tight. Rings and base Leupold and no cant. Scope is a Burris Fullfiels II and is good and clear. I can shoot open sighted ok. Preferred the scope due to all the brush and trees in my hunting area I want to use this rifle on. Farthest shot may be 75-100 yards. More realistic 50-60 yards. Think I will try a walmart box of 170 grain core locs..
ShootistPRS
New member
Wendy,
If you haven't tried Hodgdon H4895 please do. It has been a very good powder in my 30-30. I have to weigh each load, which I hate, but the results are great.
I had a Marlin with micro-groove rifling that I wore out in a couple of years. when it started grouping "shotgun" patterns I changed the scope and tried all different loads. Then I fit a bullet into the muzzle and it almost dropped through the barrel. I gave that gun to a guy who was going to re-barrel to a 32 WCF round.
If you haven't tried Hodgdon H4895 please do. It has been a very good powder in my 30-30. I have to weigh each load, which I hate, but the results are great.
I had a Marlin with micro-groove rifling that I wore out in a couple of years. when it started grouping "shotgun" patterns I changed the scope and tried all different loads. Then I fit a bullet into the muzzle and it almost dropped through the barrel. I gave that gun to a guy who was going to re-barrel to a 32 WCF round.
FrankenMauser
New member
Well, I guess I'm just lying to myself.... 
I can't find a photo of a .30-30 group right now.
Even so, this .307 Win group must be a lie, as well. Such a shame that this rifle consistently produces the same statistical anomalies. ...Especially since it was built from spare parts.
10-round group. But, apparently, I only have a photo from after the first five. (Scoped w/ fixed 4x28mm.)
This one, though (a Remlin 336W)....
Frustrating and irritating. It may be going back to Remlington.
It does this with everything ... most of the time ... but not always:
Base, rings, and scope have all been swapped for better parts. One more test on the schedule. If no progress is made, off to Marlington it goes...
I can't find a photo of a .30-30 group right now.
Even so, this .307 Win group must be a lie, as well. Such a shame that this rifle consistently produces the same statistical anomalies. ...Especially since it was built from spare parts.
10-round group. But, apparently, I only have a photo from after the first five. (Scoped w/ fixed 4x28mm.)
This one, though (a Remlin 336W)....
Frustrating and irritating. It may be going back to Remlington.
It does this with everything ... most of the time ... but not always:
Base, rings, and scope have all been swapped for better parts. One more test on the schedule. If no progress is made, off to Marlington it goes...
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Frankemauser. I feel your pain. Same gun. I haven't lost any shots yet but certainly not impressed with it so far.
Shootist I do have some h4895 but everything I read said go 3031. I will give some a try. I still have almost 150 Sierra 150s left. Mine isn't blued either. Some cheap looking parkerize ng. Wish Marlin was still Marlin. If it doesn't get any better I'm going to sell and pick up a Ruger in 7-08.
Shootist I do have some h4895 but everything I read said go 3031. I will give some a try. I still have almost 150 Sierra 150s left. Mine isn't blued either. Some cheap looking parkerize ng. Wish Marlin was still Marlin. If it doesn't get any better I'm going to sell and pick up a Ruger in 7-08.
Geezerbiker
New member
If I had a rifle that shot that bad, I'd certainly look into what was wrong with it. Sounds like it might need to have the crown recut...
Tony
Tony
Great group! Show us more!
I would have suggested taking it to this Saturday's 1000 point match at the CMP, but that match requires rapid fire sequences and your lever action would not be suitable. However, there is an F Class match on the 14th. You can register online https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&match=15978. Once you show everyone that your 307 Win lever action can punch out the 300 yard X ring, by shooting a 200-20X, I am quite certain you will be allowed to shoot the next 40 rounds at 600 yards. The CMP hands each shooter a print out of their group and the values of each shot. It is very neat and handy. I have not scanned in a rifle score sheet, but this is a pistol score sheet, very similar.
Once we see your shot group and your Master Class or High Master Class score, based on a cumulative 60 rounds, your credibility about having a sub MOA lever action will be greatly enhanced.
FrankenMauser
New member
Nicely done, Slamfire...
Accuse everyone of being a liar. Then, when some one comes along providing even minimal proof of a rifle that defies your purported 'lies', still insinuate that they're lying, while insisting that it still means absolutely nothing without taking it to 'Master Class' and a minimum of 40 rounds at 600 yards.
Yes, that's completely logical in a thread about lever guns...
Please go write another six-page thesis on greasing cartridges somewhere else. Right now, you're riding two fallacies that don't do anything for this thread: "Moving the Goalposts" and "No True Scotsman".
Accuse everyone of being a liar. Then, when some one comes along providing even minimal proof of a rifle that defies your purported 'lies', still insinuate that they're lying, while insisting that it still means absolutely nothing without taking it to 'Master Class' and a minimum of 40 rounds at 600 yards.
Yes, that's completely logical in a thread about lever guns...
Please go write another six-page thesis on greasing cartridges somewhere else. Right now, you're riding two fallacies that don't do anything for this thread: "Moving the Goalposts" and "No True Scotsman".