Name on government watch list threatens pilot's career

From Jeanne Meserve
CNN Homeland Security Correspondent

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- For Erich Scherfen, being on a government terror watch list isn't just a matter of inconvenience. It could end his career.


Erich Scherfen served 13 years in the military, including flying National Guard helicopters.

1 of 3 Scherfen served in the U.S. military for 13 years, as an Army infantryman in the first Gulf War and then as a helicopter pilot in the National Guard. After receiving an honorable discharge, he was hired as a pilot by Colgan Air Inc., a regional airline operating in the Northeast and Texas.

In April, Colgan informed Scherfen that he was on a government list and would be suspended from his job. He was told he faced termination on September 1 unless he was able to clear his name.

But Scherfen, of Schuylkill Haven, Pennsylvania, has been unable to do so and said he fears that it could mean he has no future as a pilot.

"My entire career depends on me getting off this list," he said. "I probably won't be able to get a job anywhere else in the world having this mark that I'm on this list."

Witold Walczak, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney representing Scherfen and his wife in a lawsuit, calls the government actions "unfair" and "unjust."

"It is quite clear when the government does something that takes away not just your job but your occupation, your career, they have to provide you with some means to clear your name," Walczak said.

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The lawsuit, filed this week in federal court in Pennsylvania, asks the U.S. government to remove Scherfen and his wife, Rubina Tareen, from any watch lists or databases that inhibit their travel.

Scherfen is a convert to Islam. His wife emigrated from Pakistan when she was 17 and is now a U.S. citizen. She runs a small business selling books and DVDs about Islam, publications she describes as nonpolitical. Watch the couple speculate on why they're listed »

Scherfen and Tareen have both been stopped when traveling and told by security personnel that they are on "a list." Scherfen calls it "embarrassing."

Tareen said she thinks they may be on a watch list because of their Muslim faith and her Pakistani heritage. The two said they are not terrorists and don't associate with people who are.

"I have no idea why I am on the list, and they're not telling officially that I'm even on the list," Scherfen said. iReport.com: Are you on the list?

In a statement, the U.S. Justice Department said it will not confirm or deny that the couple's names are on a watch list for national security and privacy reasons.

In May, Scherfen and his wife wrote to the Department of Homeland Security, asking for help with their case. The department referred them to the Transportation Security Administration's Traveler Redress Inquiry Program. This week, they received a number to track their case, but their complaint has not been addressed.

A TSA spokeswoman said the agency is seeking "a meaningful resolution" to the couple's case but said there is no timetable for doing so.

Meanwhile, a federal judge has the case under review. He asked that Colgan move Scherfen's termination date to October 1. The airline has done so, allowing more time for a possible resolution.

"Unfortunately, it is a problem that is shared by countless individuals who have no connection to terrorism, have no connection to crime and don't belong on this list," said Walczak, the ACLU lawyer.

Walczak acknowledged the need for the government to protect the country from threats with a watch list but said, "The problem with what the government is doing is that they really don't care about innocent casualties."

Scherfen said the pain of his situation is accentuated by the fact that he spent 13 years in uniform protecting the country.

"We served honorably," he said. "We served in a war. And they're thumbing their noses at us, basically, and that makes me feel ... really sad about this situation."


What do you think about this? Goverment out of control? I thought the watch list was supposed to make us safer not take away our careers.

It seems like the watch list is a blanket statment list. Muslim = terrorist. It's sad when America has come to this.
 

Saab1911

New member
Frankly, I don't care. If it takes profiling to keep us safe and keep planes
from flying into buildings, so be it.
 

Saab1911

New member
WTW said:
"...and when they came for me..."

yup that about says it all. But some people don't get it

There is no moral equivalency between Nazi Germany killing millions of Jews
and one Muslim dude not being able to fly.
 
There is no moral equivalency between Nazi Germany killing millions of Jews
and one Muslim dude not being able to fly.

One now........and you are not that one. Right now anyways. There are millions of people on the no fly list. What next, No drive list? No border crossing list. I meant state boarder.
 

JuanCarlos

New member
Frankly, I don't care. If it takes profiling to keep us safe and keep planes
from flying into buildings, so be it.

I could name you about a half dozen additional gun regulations that would have about as much effect on public safety as the no-fly list...I assume you'll support all those as well, right?

Oh, wait, no you won't because those will affect you.

Which is why Antipitas's quote applies perfectly in this situation.
 

Monsterman

New member
I was going to lash out again, but as I said, I learned my lesson.

Pity, I still wonder why people like <name redacted> are here.
 

Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
I worked for the Feds for awhile and I don't understand the problems people have getting off this list. Don't get me wrong, the federal government is incompetent beyond belief but I saw more than one person who was mistakenly on this list get their name removed in a couple weeks. All you do is call of phone number, fax over some paperwork and wait a week or two while they process the documents and verify your identity. I never saw any one have a problem.
 

Al Norris

Moderator Emeritus
Saab1911 said:
There is no moral equivalency between Nazi Germany killing millions of Jews and one Muslim dude not being able to fly.
But there is a moral equivalency between not caring if one person, who happens to be Muslim, is placed on the watch list, if the person is in no other way a suspected person.

It's that "not caring" that is repugnant.

When we allow innocents to be placed upon suspected terrorist lists, so that we can "feel" safe, we have lost all semblance of morality. When we no longer care about such things, then we ourselves are no longer safe, nor do we deserve safety. Hence my quote.
 

S832

New member
Government profiling is logical to do. Why treat everyone the same if one group of people is more likely to be blowing things up then another?

Its like saying cops should patrol all neighborhoods equally instead of focusing on the areas with high crime.

I am not saying its great, only that it makes sense.
 

kamerer

New member
When we allow innocents to be placed upon suspected terrorist lists, so that we can "feel" safe, we have lost all semblance of morality.

There was an old adage about our justice system that it was better to let 10 criminals go free than send an innocent man away for years. And I agree with that. That a criminal who has made his ethical choice to harm might get away with it, when weighed against the unbridled power of a government to strip an innocent of life, liberty, health and family is no contest. A government can not be empowered to punish just to feel safe or "close a case." Liberty is far too important than that.

Letting five terrorists "miss" being on some ineffective, silly list of people to hassled for the public gratification in order to get one decent American off the list if a fine trade with me. That this man is also a long-serving US army combat veteran makes it even more shocking. Absolutely shocking. The only legitimate reason for being on the list is either his wife's religion and practice of it, or his (Muslim).

There is no moral equivalency between Nazi Germany killing millions of Jews and one Muslim dude not being able to fly.

Sounds exactly like an equivalency to Nazi Germany - let's put the Jews in a registry so we can keep an eye on them (1934). Looks like Homeland Security and the TSA are doing the same to Muslims. The next step was to remove Jews from "sensitive" professions - medicine, finance, aviation, etc, about 1937. Check, moving down that path effectively.

So this Muslim has just lost his job because his religion makes it "too sensitive" for him to fly for a private contract helicopter company?

I really don't see how this isn't EXACTLY equivalent. No one has been rounded up and killed yet (at least by Homeland Security), but when do we lay down the law and say "This is not what America is about."

This kind of police-state crap is exactly what America is NOT about.
 

gc70

New member
I worked for the Feds for awhile and I don't understand the problems people have getting off this list. Don't get me wrong, the federal government is incompetent beyond belief but I saw more than one person who was mistakenly on this list get their name removed in a couple weeks. All you do is call of phone number, fax over some paperwork and wait a week or two while they process the documents and verify your identity. I never saw any one have a problem.

Read the news - Airline captain, lawyer, child on terror 'watch list'.

James Robinson is a retired Air National Guard brigadier general and a commercial pilot for a major airline who flies passenger planes around the country.

He has even been certified by the Transportation Security Administration to carry a weapon into the cockpit as part of the government's defense program should a terrorist try to commandeer a plane.

But there's one problem: James Robinson, the pilot, has difficulty even getting to his plane because his name is on the government's terrorist "watch list." ...
 

RedneckFur

New member
I'm with Antipas on this one.

This man's religion has nothing to do with his ablilty to do his job. If its shown he does not associate with terrorists or condone their ideals, I feel his name should be removed from the list.
 

kamerer

New member
If its shown he does not associate with terrorists or condone their ideals,

I think it needs to be shown that he DOES associate, support or condone them BEFORE he goes on a list. Government in secret, and especially law enforcement and judgments, which is what this is, needs to be done in the open. Secret police and enforcement techniques do not make a society safe, they make a government safe.
 

S832

New member
What if a religion(I am not referencing Islam, but a made up religion in this case) supported terrorism, when does safety come before freedom of religion? Should someone who follows a religion that supports killing people be able to get a job as a security guard?

When does public interest and safety become more important then ideals?

Freedom of religion is great, but should the person who believes in a religion which commands him to kill all those who don't worship his god be put in a position in which he can do significant amounts of damage?
 
What if a religion(I am not referencing Islam, but a made up religion in this case) supported terrorism, when does safety come before freedom of religion? Should someone who follows a religion that supports killing people be able to get a job as a security guard?

When does public interest and safety become more important then ideals?

Freedom of religion is great, but should the person who believes in killing all those who don't worship his god be put in a position in which he can do significant amounts of damage?

trolling again?
 

S832

New member
I am asking a question which I would like your answer to, when does public interest take precedent?
 

JuanCarlos

New member
What if a religion(I am not referencing Islam, but a made up religion in this case) supported terrorism, when does safety come before freedom of religion? Should someone who follows a religion that supports killing people be able to get a job as a security guard?

When does public interest and safety become more important then ideals?

Freedom of religion is great, but should the person who believes in a religion which commands him to kill all those who don't worship his god be put in a position in which he can do significant amounts of damage?

There are religions that don't support killing people?

Also, I'm not entirely sure where I draw the line between public interest/safety and ideal, but it's a helluva lot farther than this.
 
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