Mystery Spanish 32-20 top break

[mwells72774]

No clue what it is but looking for parts.

 

[Jim Watson]

OH logo.
Orbea Hermanos, one of the upper middle class Spanish knockoffs.
Too bad Bubba lost the side plate and held the hammer in with a Phillips head screw.

One theory is that the Spanish, along with the multitude of .32 Ruby automatics, also made 8mm Lebel revolvers for the French in WWI. After the war, they noticed that they were not far from .32-20, all it took was a chamber reamer to make guns salable in the Americas.

 

[mwells72774]

How hard would that side plate be to locate?

 

[Sarge]

You're going to have to find another one to cannibalize.

 

[mwells72774]

Wonder what the thickness is? We've got a machine shop and couple probably make one

 

[Jim Watson]

It is the thickness of the depth of the recess in the frame. Revolver sideplates are flush fit.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The pistol you have is a rough copy of a Smith and Wesson Double Action 44.

Orbea Hermanos was a large pistol manufacturer in Eibar Spain. They made lots of copies of Smith and Wesson revolvers.

Good luck profiling the shape of a side plate. Those parts were cut on pattern following milling machines, long before the advent of CNC. If you look on gun broker or some of the other auction sites you may be able to find another one like it and the side plate might fit.

Or you might just want to find a more complete one.

 

[Model12Win]

Looks good. Love the top breaks. Here is my Webley top break:

It is chambered in the mild but effective .38 S&W.

 

[Jim Watson]

David Chicoine worked on my No 3 New Model Target.
He said the sideplate and screw were replacements. Not the water tight fit of factory, but better than what you see on a Bubba's Bumper Chrome Special. And it shot.

I be the OP can make a sideplate good enough for a Spanish copy.

 

[SaxonPig]

You sure it's a 32-20?

 

[mwells72774]

Top of the barrel says "for 32-20 Winchester"

 

[Model12Win]

Top of the barrel says "for 32-20 Winchester"

Are you sure that's what it says??

 

[mwells72774]

I don't have it right in front of me but pretty sure

 

[SaxonPig]

I ask because I have never seen a top break in 32-20. That's about the same length as the 38 Special and most TBs are not long enough to accommodate a cartridge that long. Usually in 32 or 38 S&W.

 

[James K]

"We've got a machine shop and couple probably make one."

Undoubtedly. But can you make one at a price appropriate to salvaging an old, cheap foreign gun? That job can be done, but will involve an endless amount of cut-and-try, with careful handwork at the finish, and no one is going to shell out a thousand dollars or more to fix a gun that will then be worth, on a good day, maybe $50.

Jim

 

[mwells72774]

"We've got a machine shop and couple probably make one."



Undoubtedly. But can you make one at a price appropriate to salvaging an old, cheap foreign gun? That job can be done, but will involve an endless amount of cut-and-try, with careful handwork at the finish, and no one is going to shell out a thousand dollars or more to fix a gun that will then be worth, on a good day, maybe $50.



Jim

This is true. May end up being a keeper/tinker toy

 

[James K]

Also, there is almost no chance of finding a sideplate that will fit or can be made to fit at a reasonable cost. In the Spanish factories of that day, the main power tool was a file and Julio's hand, arm, and skill. Julio probably was paid a couple of pesos a day; what does your gunsmith make?

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

I figure this is a hobby piece. Use the machine shop to rough out a plate and spend some spare time filing instead of watching reality tv.

ALFA 1911 shows long frame topbreaks in .38 Special, probably made in Spain. Not .32-20, probably not much demand in Germany.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

In the Spanish factories of that day, the main power tool was a file and Julio's hand, arm, and skill.

Howdy Again

Actually I doubt that. There is no reason why the Spanish factories could not have been using pattern following milling equipment not too different from what Smith and Wesson was using when they made the side plate for this Double Action 44. This gun was over polished and refinished at some point, and that makes the outline of the side plate show up very well.

Here is a view of the recess where the side plate sits. Notice it is not a regular shape, but an oblong, irregular shape. S&W was using pattern following equipment since the 1850s to cut the intricate contours of side plates and the matching recesses in the frames to receive the side plates. When the parts came off the machines, they probably needed very little hand filing to make them fit perfectly.

Any outfit that was mass producing complicated products with intricate parts would have been using the latest technology to produce the parts. I doubt if Orbea Hermanos would have been a profitable concern if they had been depending on Julio's skill to make side plates one at a time with his file. And judging from what I have seen on the Web, OH produced a boatload of guns.

In today's world where many folks seem to think the only way to mass produce complex parts is with CNC, many have lost sight of the fact that technologies existed well over 100 years ago to mass produce complex parts long before any body dreamed up the computer. Mass producing parts such as this is exactly what pattern following milling equipment was good at.

But of course, it only becomes profitable with the economies of scale. Making one side plate probably would require an endless amount of cut and try, cut and try, until the fit was perfect. That would be expensive, skilled hand labor.

 

[James K]

Thanks, Driftwood. As you might have guessed, I was exaggerating. Obviously, Spanish gun makers could never have achieved the production they did using much hand work, no matter how good or how fast Julio was.

Jim